Mixed ammo at a major - ideal chrono declarations/procedure?

[random_guy7531]

So I will be shooting a level 2 this upcoming weekend. Unfortunately, due the ongoing projectile/primer/etc. shortage, I have multiple different loads that I'll be running. I have high confidence that all will meet the minor specs for CO, but I am unsure about how folks think I should address giving rounds to chrono, what I should declare, etc. For reference, I will be running 3 different types of loads (really only 2 unless things go way south). I have ~150 rounds of 124gr Speer TMJ loadings (which have already passed chrono at Area 5 and MI Sectional), and an additional ~150 rounds of 124gr BBI loads (which have not yet passed chrono at a major, but which pass my own personal chrono at ~129pf). I additionally have another ~100 syntech rounds which I will leverage if the re-shoots get ridiculous.

 

My main questions are - when baggies get passed around on stage 1 for later chrono, what rounds should I put in? What should I tell the guys working chrono? For the folks who MD major matches, what would you like to see a competitor do here that both shows willingness and ability to comply with the rules, but doesn't cause a logistical headache?

 

Thanks!

[TeedOff]

Interested in a official answer. I’d have to imagine this will become a common problem at majors this fall and into next year.

[jwhittin]

I'm going to take a swing at this as a relatively new CRO.  The rules recommend collecting samples as randomly as possible.  A true random sample of the 300 rounds, across two lots of reloads you intend to use, would result in 4 samples from each lot.  That meets the wording in the rule book.    I think using 8 rounds from the lot that has not passed a chrono test would be more appropriate to meet the intent of the rules (best way to ensure ammo meets declared PF).  

 

I look forward to hearing what the experienced folks say. 

[konkapot]

This is not quantum physics, or a criminal investigation. Do what Joe4d said; give them 8 rounds for chrono and get back to shooting the match. 

[ChuckS]

Here is the rule:

 

5.5.4 All ammunition used by a competitor must satisfy the requirements of the relevant Division. (Appendix D)

 

So, if there is a chrono being used to verify division requirements, supply 8 samples of each load. Odds are they will ask WTF, so tell them the story and see what the RM says...

[ChuckS]

The OP asked what he should do with multiple loads for a Level 2 match. He did not ask what you all think about chrono and each other for that matter. Stay on topic. Off topic stuff hid.

[Ming the Merciless]

30 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Here is the rule:

 

5.5.4 All ammunition used by a competitor must satisfy the requirements of the relevant Division. (Appendix D)

 

So, if there is a chrono being used to verify division requirements, supply 8 samples of each load. Odds are they will ask WTF, so tell them the story and see what the RM says...

 

This!  I had to do this at a major when I mistakenly brought a different load for my backup ammo.  I supplied 8 rounds of the JHP load and 8 rounds of the FMJ load.  Chrono Dude had a good laugh at my expense and fired 3 of the JHP load, which made major and 3 of the FMJ load, which again made major.  No biggie!

[rowdyb]

I ran out of ammo at an area match and had to borrow ammo from a squad mate, who had already gone through chrono. I still had to take that ammo and go back and re-chrono all over again. I'd deduce from that you need to give them two bags of 8.

[Bakerjd]

Happened to my girlfriend at Ryan Rocks Charity Blast last year. She was using two different ammo brands. Both were shot across the Chrono, both had a bullet pulled and weighed. No big deal.

[Kema]

Here in Finland we have removed chrono cause of COVID(person collecting ammo and handling them). Interesting that you are not taking any precautions, but maybe it's freedom

[TeedOff]

Just now, Kema said:

Here in Finland we have removed chrono cause of COVID(person collecting ammo and handling them). Interesting that you are not taking any precautions, but maybe it's freedom

i shot a the north Arizona classic in Prescott this past weekend.  At the chrono stage I was told to put three rounds in a mag and five more in a cup on the table. Then told to make ready.  RO then told me where to position the muzzle and fire, read chrono, repeat and repeat.  At no point did anyone handle my gun, mag or ammo besides me.  I declared my bullet weight. They did not pull a bullet but said they would if I didn’t make power factor on my first 6 rounds. 

[Kema]

Good to hear! Sooner we get this s#!t past we can go back to normal.

[waktasz]

8 hours ago, TeedOff said:

i shot a the north Arizona classic in Prescott this past weekend.  At the chrono stage I was told to put three rounds in a mag and five more in a cup on the table. Then told to make ready.  RO then told me where to position the muzzle and fire, read chrono, repeat and repeat.  At no point did anyone handle my gun, mag or ammo besides me.  I declared my bullet weight. They did not pull a bullet but said they would if I didn’t make power factor on my first 6 rounds. 

 

Hope you brought spare chronos!

[zzt]

It is interesting that some matches allow you to present the rounds to be used at the chrono station.  That should not be allowed.  I have always been asked to present all the ammo I'll use and the guy collecting the ammo chooses randomly.  Sometimes they collect from the same box.  Other times across multiple boxes.

[random_guy7531]

Some good responses here - my current plan is to just present two baggies of 8 rounds to the chrono collection guy when asked. Ill also reach out to the match MD and see his preferred solution (realistically, that's probably where I should have started ). I'll make sure to follow up here with how everything got handled.

[random_guy7531]

49 minutes ago, zzt said:

It is interesting that some matches allow you to present the rounds to be used at the chrono station.  That should not be allowed.  I have always been asked to present all the ammo I'll use and the guy collecting the ammo chooses randomly.  Sometimes they collect from the same box.  Other times across multiple boxes.

FWIW, I've been to some matches where you are allowed to present chrono rounds but they must come from your belt, and you had to go directly from a stage you just shot to chrono. In those matches, I've also seen a much higher preponderance of officials tagging folks for random checks after they get done with a stage. Calling for calibration seemed to be a fast way to earn yourself and extra chrono trip.

[waktasz]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

It is interesting that some matches allow you to present the rounds to be used at the chrono station.  That should not be allowed.  I have always been asked to present all the ammo I'll use and the guy collecting the ammo chooses randomly.  Sometimes they collect from the same box.  Other times across multiple boxes.

 

Since when? This has never been done at any of the major matches held in this area in at least the last 6 years.
The only thing close is the one year at Mid Atlantic where we took ammo out of dropped mags after stage 1 or off of a shooters belt. 

[shred]

Not uncommon for them to ask for ammo off the belt or just give them ammo, or sometimes they'll want to pick.  Really depends on the stage ROs in most cases as the RM rolls by with a stack of baggies and hands them to the CRO saying "collect 8 rounds from everyone", and drives off on his 4 wheeler to the next stage.  

 

 

[matteekay]

31 minutes ago, shred said:

Not uncommon for them to ask for ammo off the belt or just give them ammo, or sometimes they'll want to pick.  Really depends on the stage ROs in most cases as the RM rolls by with a stack of baggies and hands them to the CRO saying "collect 8 rounds from everyone", and drives off on his 4 wheeler to the next stage.  

 

 

 

 

Exactly this. IIRC, for 2019 Revo Nats, they chrono'd with the ammo we bagged at the start of the match. For the 2020 IDPA Rocky Mountain Regional, we bagged ammo at the start of the match, but at chrono they asked for ammo from my belt. Either is technically acceptable as all of your ammo should meet PF.

 

My added disclaimer is I was shooting revo both times and RO's don't always want to deal with mooning/demooning ammo.

[18111811]

How does this chrono work if chronos low and its approved ammo? IE Syntech or Atlanta arms approved ammo.

[ChuckS]

10 minutes ago, 18111811 said:

How does this chrono work if chronos low and its approved ammo? IE Syntech or Atlanta arms approved ammo.

Appendix C3 of the rule book tells you what you need to know

 

[zzt]

3 hours ago, waktasz said:

 

Since when? This has never been done at any of the major matches held in this area in at least the last 6 years.
The only thing close is the one year at Mid Atlantic where we took ammo out of dropped mags after stage 1 or off of a shooters belt. 

 

At both Area 8 matches I shot I was asked to present ammo.  They selected and bagged it before the start of the match.  The bagged ammo was used at the chrono station both times.

[waktasz]

Yes that's how they almost always do it. I was referring to this part

Quote

" I have always been asked to present all the ammo I'll use and the guy collecting the ammo chooses randomly.  Sometimes they collect from the same box.  Other times across multiple boxes."

 

[konkapot]

Off the top of my head I've never experienced any RO picking what ammo was going to be chrono'd. Sample size is about 60 majors, from deepest Area 1 to Area 8 and points in between. I've always been the one providing the chrono ammo. 

[zzt]

1 hour ago, waktasz said:

Yes that's how they almost always do it. I was referring to this part

 

I presented three closed boxes of 100 rounds each and they selected what they wanted.  I never touched the actual rounds.