Sarge Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 This weekend a shooter had a 1911 that he had modified the left grip panel with a ledge for resting his thumb on. He asked if it was legal. And added that it fits the box. I said I didn’t know but would look it up. Another knowledgeable CRO said it definitely legal because it’s a grip panel and you can do what you want with a grip panel. I see nothing in the rules addressing grip panel mods etc. Is this one of those, “the rules don’t say you can’t” situations? I would think it would be covered in D5 but it isn’t. is this in a ruling or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 If for SS then I'd say not legal D-5 22 Prohibited modifications and features External modifications or features such as weights or devices to control or reduce recoil (such as, but not limited to, thumb rests or components which could be used as such). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 I'm thinking legal, because I don't think it would be any more of a recoil controlling device than a thumb safety that you rest your thumb on and grip panels are allowed to be changed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 25 minutes ago, broadside72 said: If for SS then I'd say not legal D-5 22 Prohibited modifications and features External modifications or features such as weights or devices to control or reduce recoil (such as, but not limited to, thumb rests or components which could be used as such). So all safety's other than the original GI style are illegal ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 (edited) Even the original style thinner thumb safety could be used to help mitigate recoil but the original intent of that component was a safety, so I think that changing that part out is okay. Just like an extended beavertail grip safety, the original design helps mitigate recoil some and any replacement continues to perform the original function of grip safety and recoil management. But no part of the 1911 grips are intended to be a thumb rest for recoil mitigation so adding a set that does it seems illegal to me. But what do I know, they allow gas pedals in prod now so..... Edited September 21, 2020 by broadside72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, broadside72 said: If for SS then I'd say not legal D-5 22 Prohibited modifications and features External modifications or features such as weights or devices to control or reduce recoil (such as, but not limited to, thumb rests or components which could be used as such). when we say 'thumb rest', i generally understand it to mean something for the support hand them. Lots of grips on various guns have some kind of contour for the strong hand thumb, but i don't think it does anything to control or reduce recoil. As a CRO, I would tend to not care at all about what you do with a 1911 grip to make it more comfortable for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Legal, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Sarge, do you have a picture? Was there any shaping done to it? Did he mention why he wanted the grip panel that way? You said “ledge”, in your opinion, could it be used any at all for recoil mitigation? Was it a Government length model? If it fits the box, there can’t be much length to it but just want to be sure of all the specifics. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampleworks Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Legal as long as it fits the box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 21, 2020 Author Share Posted September 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Gary Stevens said: Legal, IMO. 1 hour ago, gng4life said: Sarge, do you have a picture? NO. Was there any shaping done to it? YES. IMAGINE A RAISED “7” MOLDED ONTO THE LEFT GRIP. Did he mention why he wanted the grip panel that way? NO. You said “ledge”, in your opinion, could it be used any at all for recoil mitigation? I BELIEVE IT COULD. I THINK IT WAS INTENDED FOR HIS STRONG HAND FINGERS TO CONTACT THE LEADING EDGE. Was it a Government length model? YES If it fits the box, there can’t be much length to it but just want to be sure of all the specifics. IT WAS RAISED PRETTY SUBSTANTIALLY. Again, I’m not arguing with any specific viewpoint. I just don’t like having to answer with, “I don’t know but I’ll look it up”, only to not find an answer in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 When in doubt remember that what is not prohibited is permitted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 24 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said: When in doubt remember that what is not prohibited is permitted Except in Production and Carry Optics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Gray area - the rules in D5 define the spirit of the rule, which leaves it open for interpretation. Common sense would be that if it's not one of the "bullseye ledges" or something that can be held with support-hand thumb in a meaningful way (subjective again), it should be legal. If it looks like an abomination and not a 1911 (subjective again), it's not. Hence the gray area until/unless there is an official ruling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Gray area - the rules in D5 define the spirit of the rule, which leaves it open for interpretation. Common sense would be that if it's not one of the "bullseye ledges" or something that can be held with support-hand thumb in a meaningful way (subjective again), it should be legal. If it looks like an abomination and not a 1911 (subjective again), it's not. Hence the gray area until/unless there is an official ruling...Rules do not have a "Spirit"--Pat JonesFirestone COUSPSA #A79592 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 10 hours ago, PatJones said: Rules do not have a "Spirit" This one does - it’s not definitive, it doesn’t define the terms it uses, it gives examples, it couldn’t be in any law since it’s too vague... We either call it a “spirit,” or we call it “arbitrary.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Okay, so suppose I have grips made out of solid pewter or brass; they look pretty. They're not like screwing on an SJC frame weight to my Glock, but they're are heavier than your average wood panels. Legal or not? If they're illegal, if I have grips with steel inserts in them (ala Pachmyars) or are checkered steel and weigh more than wood, what then? What would be the weight limit on grips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 25, 2020 Author Share Posted September 25, 2020 6 hours ago, mpolans said: Okay, so suppose I have grips made out of solid pewter or brass; they look pretty. They're not like screwing on an SJC frame weight to my Glock, but they're are heavier than your average wood panels. Legal or not? If they're illegal, if I have grips with steel inserts in them (ala Pachmyars) or are checkered steel and weigh more than wood, what then? What would be the weight limit on grips? Gun weight max allowed is 43oz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 On 9/21/2020 at 3:26 PM, Gary Stevens said: Legal, IMO. As far as I am concerned, Gary's "IMO" is as good as gold. Legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 13 hours ago, Sarge said: Gun weight max allowed is 43oz yes, no one GAF how much your grips weigh. Make them out of plutonium if you want. but you may have to mill some weight out of the rest of the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 We are shooting this weekend. If I see him again I'll take a pic of the grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 4 hours ago, motosapiens said: yes, no one GAF how much your grips weigh. Make them out of plutonium if you want. but you may have to mill some weight out of the rest of the gun. Sure, but if I can take it out of the slide (reciprocating mass) and add it to non-reciprocating mass (grip/frame) and keep the total weight within the limit, I'd think it might still be advantageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 1, 2020 Author Share Posted October 1, 2020 Pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 I don't really see anything there that looks illegal to me. Are we talking about that little extension below the magazine release?--Pat JonesFirestone COUSPSA #A79592 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishbreath Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 There was an NROI question of the month on this last September. Production and CO explicitly say that you can't modify grips to create a thumb rest. SS doesn't outright say you can't modify grips, just that you can't modify components or add devices for recoil reduction. I don't know that grips like that would count—it seems like the ledge isn't well-placed for recoil reduction. The Single Stack rules are, however, frustratingly vague compared to Prod/CO on what modifications are and aren't allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now