Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

USPSA - How about adding .22lr (RFPI, RFPO)


Nic_USPSA_C
 Share

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, RH45 said:

Several local clubs are running dedicated USPSA TYPE .22 matches. They are a hoot. The biggest issue is if you have any ammo that was bought, since Obama was in office, it's a roll of the dice if it will feed, or fire.

we bough *all* of our ammo in the last 12 months, many different brands, and we have 4 pistols and a rifle that run 100%. I do see other people struggling sometimes, i think because they too much silly stuff to their race guns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 257
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

4 hours ago, twodownzero said:

 

Sadly, I believe you're correct. 

 

 

PCC has no place in our sport.  Hopefully USPSA comes to its senses and that really can go away, but I doubt it.

 

CO should have stayed in Open where it belongs.  I'm frustrated and irritated by it because we had one rule--if you want to use a dot, you go to Open.  CO created an exception to that without any real justification other than the gun companies want to sell guns with slides milled for dots and not have them have to compete against open guns with frame mounted dots.

 

I do not care about being beaten by a CO or PCC shooters any more than I care about being beaten by Open shooters.  I'm not shooting against any of them and whatever limited interest I once had as to that has waned. 

 

The sport was not having any trouble retaining members before allowing rifles at pistol matches or welfare open.  These two things invented to get more industry interest in the newest things they're trying to sell us, which while a legitimate purpose in and of itself, I oppose the creation of new divisions because we have too many already.

 

What are we doing to change it?  Well, politics aren't allowed on the board, but you can bet there's going to be some huge changes in USPSA in the near future.  That said, I don't think that even those will be enough to get rid of the recent rule changes, so for me, the most meaningful thing I can do is oppose any new divisions, including posting on this thread.  Short of that, we, as members, could have sued USPSA for violating its own bylaws earlier this year, but there may be some way to pull back some of the more foolish changes this year with some good old common sense.

 

Contrary to the prevailing wisdom, it IS possible for us to be open minded enough that our brains fall out of our skulls.  You all may not agree with me about PCC and CO, but many saw the foolishness of destroying the equipment rules with the flashlights this year.  All that shows me is that everyone has their limits, but rifles at pistol matches and dots outside of open aren't it for everyone.  That's okay; it isn't the first time I'm in the minority and won't be the last.

 

.22s in USPSA are at least as unwelcome as PCCs and far more unwelcome than welfare open.

post of the month!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RH45 said:

They are a hoot.

I bet they are! This, and the recognition of extraordinary circumstances like Mr. Watson spoke of were smart moves. It kept people interested and invested during a rough patch. And still is I bet.

 

But do I want to see it incorporated into every USPSA match?

Nope. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm all for outlaw matches that allow 22s but allowing them as part of a USPSA match completely changes the stages to conform to 22 ammo.

 

Local club runs a weekly league and allows 22s and in the last year I've only seen one person show up with a 22. Not sure there is as big of a demand for it as is perceived. Most of the 22 shooters are shooting steel challenge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Sinister4 said:

I've shot irons for decades but as soon as the eyesight goes, on goes the dot in whatever class. 

 

Amen to that.  For years I shot SCSA Open with my Limited gun and a dovetail mounted dot.  You do what you have to.  I was hoping dual cataract surgery would allow me to go back.  It DEFINITELY restored my distance vision.  Unfortunately, I still can't see close well enough to shoot Limited.  That's okay, because I have a fortune tied up in there Open guns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Intheshaw1 said:

I'm all for outlaw matches that allow 22s but allowing them as part of a USPSA match completely changes the stages to conform to 22 ammo.

 

You have to decide what to do about steel that won't fall - local club runs a 22 squad and those folks I think are painting steel, scoring steel hits like you would at a steel match and leaving activated targets isn their activated positions.

 

So, same match except swingers do not swing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Jim Watson said:

It is only IDPA, therefore beneath contempt by some here, but a nearby club has been allowing .22s in NFC during the ammo and component shortages of the Panicdemic.  It was that or shut down because attendance was down about 75%.

 

Knockdown targets are not used, mover activation is by hand on a Popper or pull rope at the firing line, stomp pad, or turnstile.  

 

I have been shooting my Nelson conversion most but not all the time; I occasionally shoot a centerfire just to keep some sense of recoil control.  The Nelson took ammo selection, cleaning regimen, and magazine adjustment, but now it is approaching centerfire reliability.  

 

There is one CZ Kadet shooter doing very well, but most of the mouse guns are Glock 44, which have gotten pretty well broken in and tuned up.

I saw a S&W Plastic M&P Compact .22 and a Ruger of some sort at the night shoot last weekend.  

 

 

Same here. They use pull rope for moving targets, leave a tight head shot for some drop targets, allow .22s to count if the steel is knocked over etc. There is some adaption required but it is not bad. 

 

I imagine it would be more difficult in a USPSA match which normally has a lot of falling steel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Zincwarrior said:

Same here. They use pull rope for moving targets, leave a tight head shot for some drop targets, allow .22s to count if the steel is knocked over etc. There is some adaption required but it is not bad. 

 

I imagine it would be more difficult in a USPSA match which normally has a lot of falling steel.

meh, just give them mikes. power matters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Zincwarrior said:

I imagine it would be more difficult in a USPSA match which normally has a lot of falling steel.

Maybe. 

 

I shoot steel matches once a month + - and most folks are shooting that with 22's, if you paint the steel I don't know why it wouldn't be just as easy to score .22 hits in USPSA side matches. As you noted, you have to decide what you want to do about activators. 

 

My back would be ok with it if there was less steel to pick up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a dedicated match, sure. 

 

Trying to integrate into a traditional USPSA match, as we currently view it, is going to cause nothing but problems in my opinion. Already mentioned are the steel & activator issues. Timer sensitivity as well. These issues could be overcome, but would it affect the centerfire divisions? My fear is that stage design would suffer and become for lack of a better term, watered down. I don't have any specific issues in mind, just a suspicion. I do know that "one size fits all" solutions usually only succeed in pissing off everyone. 

 

Just my $0.02. That being said, if USPSA did introduce a rimfire division I would still attend matches and still primary open. I would try rimfire in a USPSA setting though just to play occasionally. So I guess the equipment race starts now. Anyone know where I can pick up something akin to moonclips for a derringer? 

 

Have a great day everyone. I'm off to pattern some ratshot loads. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Carry Optics is here to stay for good or bad.  It is, or is becoming, the most popular division in USPSA and IDPA.  It is the latest and future “thing” which is sweeping through the general firearms community.

 

PPC seems to be waning just a bit.  Yes, I’ve tried it and it is fun, but I still want the challenge of shooting a pistol at a pistol match.  Stand-alone PCC matches would be the ideal – with smaller and more distant targets.

 

Rimfire has no place is standard USPSA matches.  Besides having to adjust or limit match props, rimfire is too different due to the lack of any power factor.   Again, stand-alone .22 rimfire matches would be the best solution.  As stated elsewhere, Steel Challenge rimfire is the entry level event.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Stony Lane said:

 

PPC seems to be waning just a bit.  Yes, I’ve tried it and it is fun, but I still want the challenge of shooting a pistol at a pistol match.  Stand-alone PCC matches would be the ideal – with smaller and more distant targets.

 

 

I think PCC doesn't do as well because it's harder than people think it is. CO you basically stick a dot on your gun and everything else is exactly the same. Typically in IDPA I see peoples scores immediately improve due to the high penalty for points down. Where PCC is vary different, sure standing there hitting stuff is easy but if you're standing there just hitting stuff you're probably slow and not winning. 

 

I've recently jumped into PCC, and in the matches I've shot I'm sure I could of beating myself with my CO gun. 

 

***I think all the hate is likely some of the reason for low turnout too. In the last couple months I've been shooting it I've been amazed how many guys have told me they built one, or secretly want to try it but haven't. I can't help but wonder if the constant teasing is part of it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, IHAVEGAS said:

Maybe. 

 

I shoot steel matches once a month + - and most folks are shooting that with 22's, if you paint the steel I don't know why it wouldn't be just as easy to score .22 hits in USPSA side matches. As you noted, you have to decide what you want to do about activators. 

 

My back would be ok with it if there was less steel to pick up. 

Same for my back.

 

It would be an issue if your group likes to put steel plates into columns where you have to shoot one before you can see the other.

 

As for competition with other shooters. What I've seen it doesn't really impact them. You make accommodation for the rim-fire shooters, not everyone else. If I could find a few more mags for my S&W I would probably do it as well, as I have tens of thousands of .22s, but not nearly as much 9mm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Part_time_redneck said:

Trying to integrate into a traditional USPSA match, as we currently view it, is going to cause nothing but problems in my opinion. Already mentioned are the steel & activator issues. Timer sensitivity as well.

If I can make the club match this weekend I will try to see how things have been going this year with the .22 squad, haven't heard of any problems after you decide how you want to handle steel. In my opinion, timer sensitivity is a problem with the most quiet pcc 9mm guns/loads and 22 rifles would be that much worse, I miss the days where you didn't have to share the shooters underwear in order to be sure your timer will be close enough to pick up the last shot - not a problem on most pccs but some are just crazy quiet. A good friend was complaining about getting 3 pcc reshoots at his last major, I just gave him a sympathetic look and bit my tongue. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we should add to the bylaws a division ceiling. Kind of like how the Gov. has a debt ceiling only we'll stick to it. Want to add a new division you need to kill a existing division. All we do is talk about new divisions, vary little talk about shooting or getting better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

I miss the days where you didn't have to share the shooters underwear in order to be sure your timer will be close enough to pick up the last shot

 

The cure for that is the AMG Commander timer.  https://www.amg-lab.com/  

 

It picks up everything and has no false positives from echo or the next bay.  Even though timers are provided at matches, I'll use my AMG if I'm running a PCC shooter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If there's such a demand to shoot 22s have seperate matches, period. Optics on handguns are the future and I have no problem with Carry optics. Eventually I'll give it a try. 

 

The PCC guns are great but I think they'd be much more fun and challenging to shoot in a dedicated match with harder target challenges. Right now a larger part of the challenge is moving and safely manipulating the gun around the stage vs the actual shooting challenge. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, MHicks said:

Right now a larger part of the challenge is moving and safely manipulating the gun around the stage vs the actual shooting challenge. 

 

 Initially, some PCC haters would intentionally design a CoF that hindered PCC movement.  For quite a while the stages have been designed with PCC in mind.  Even though I won't shoot PCC in USPSA, I think it a good thing.

 

I'll echo what someone earlier said.  PCC shooting is harder than it looks.  I use mine mainly for SCSA shooting.  However, I do shoot two falling steel matches a year.  They are set up USPSA 'style'.  Shooting on the move is way harder than with my Open gun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rimfire in USPSA is a terrible idea for a multitude of reasons, but primarily because 1/3 of DVC is power. Also, it is ostensibly supposed to be "practical" shooting. How is rimfire anything practical unless you are squirrel or rabbit hunting?

 

Standalone rimfire action shooting could be interesting, assuming you had specific stages designed to challenge a rimfire shooter. But I don't think your typical USPSA stage would really be much of a challenge with a rimfire gun. 

 

I like the @Racinready300ex idea of delete one division in order to add a division- why are limited 10 and revolver still a thing? Turn single stack into classic division and let revolvers play in there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, ekaiser said:

Turn single stack into classic division and let revolvers play in there. 

 

You used to be able to shoot a revolver in Production. People did that with 8 shot guns before Revo allowed 8 shot minor. Not sure if they've changed any rules to keep you from being able to do that now or not. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

You used to be able to shoot a revolver in Production. People did that with 8 shot guns before Revo allowed 8 shot minor. Not sure if they've changed any rules to keep you from being able to do that now or not. 

You can still shoot production with a revolver.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Adding a 22RF division would probably only work well if it was done similar to the old IDPA bug side match division.

Something like

 

shoot from the low ready (because many 22s have crappy safety's) 

short strings of fire say no more than 10 rounds (most 22s can play on a level field this way)

no reloads on the clock (many 22s suck to reload)

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...