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In the name of sky-ence, a Starline .38 Short Colt case will hold 11.75gr of Titegroup right up to the top...


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In the name of sky-ence, a Starline .38 Short Colt case will hold 11.75gr of Titegroup right up to the top.

A Winchester 9mm case will hold 10.95gr right up to the top.

Most people that load .38 Short Colt for use in .357 revolvers, just start with 9mm load data, and go up or down from there.

I use 160gr Bayou bullets in both.

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Mine doesn't come close to that with plated bullets

 

Name: .38 Short Colt: 158gr Berry's flat point: Titegroup 3.1gr Star Line Case 627

Notes: S&W 627 5" barrel
1.15 oal
Federal primer
Star Line case
Titegroup 3.1gr

Shots: 15
Average: 631 ft/s
SD: 21 ft/s
Min: 580 ft/s
Max: 668 ft/s
Spread: 88 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 99
Power Factor Low: 91
Power Factor High: 105
Barometric Pressure: 29 in Hg
Temperature: 73 F
Weight: 158.0 gr.
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Yea Plated bullets in all of my guns seem to take about the same charge as Jacketed.

 

And those numbers closely fit the % diff in charge needed for a comparable velocity between those two cartridges (but then the 9's I have are all Semi-Autos too).

 

Now if you were a bench rest shooter the volume of the case vs the % of charge becomes a huge factor.

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Mine doesn't come close to that with plated bullets
 
Name: .38 Short Colt: 158gr Berry's flat point: Titegroup 3.1gr Star Line Case 627Notes: S&W 627 5" barrel1.15 oalFederal primerStar Line caseTitegroup 3.1grShots: 15Average: 631 ft/sSD: 21 ft/sMin: 580 ft/sMax: 668 ft/sSpread: 88 ft/sPower Factor Average: 99Power Factor Low: 91Power Factor High: 105Barometric Pressure: 29 in HgTemperature: 73 FWeight: 158.0 gr.


The only difference I can see is I am putting a slight taper crimp on my loads. OAL, case, and primers are the exact same.


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Yeah, my 627 always chrono's slow. It has since it was brand new.

 

My gunsmith slugged the barrel, chambers, throats, and checked the barrel and barrel gap. It's all fine.

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9 hours ago, ysrracer said:

Yeah, my 627 always chrono's slow. It has since it was brand new.

 

My gunsmith slugged the barrel, chambers, throats, and checked the barrel and barrel gap. It's all fine.

One of my 627s with a 5 inch is slow also, I have a 4 inch 627 and it is way faster than the 5. As ffar as power factor the same load comes in at 119pf in the 5 in. and 128pf in the 4 in go figure.

 

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22 hours ago, ysrracer said:

Yeah, my 627 always chrono's slow. It has since it was brand new.

 

My gunsmith slugged the barrel, chambers, throats, and checked the barrel and barrel gap. It's all fine.

they are so varied its crazy

my wifes 627 is 10 to 15 PF slower than mine depending on the load, so I spend a lot of time shooting 140+ PF ammo 🙂

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.38 Short Colt in my 627

 

Name: .38 Short Colt: 125gr Berry's flat point: Titegroup 4.0gr Star Line Case 627
Notes: S&W 627 5" barrel
1.075 oal
Federal primer
Star Line case
Shots: 9
Average: 950 ft/s
SD: 21 ft/s
Min: 920 ft/s
Max: 983 ft/s
Spread: 63 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 118
Power Factor Low: 115
Power Factor High: 122
Weight: 125.0 gr.

 

The exact same load from the same batch on the same day in my 929 (5" barrel)

Name: .38 Short Colt: 125gr Berry's flat point: Titegroup 4.0gr Star Line Case 929
Notes: S&W 929 5" barrel
1.075 oal
Federal primer
Star Line case
Shots: 6
Average: 1046 ft/s
SD: 7 ft/s
Min: 1037 ft/s
Max: 1058 ft/s
Spread: 21 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 130
Power Factor Low: 129
Power Factor High: 132
Weight: 125.0 gr.

 

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54 minutes ago, ysrracer said:

.38 Short Colt in my 627

 


Name: .38 Short Colt: 125gr Berry's flat point: Titegroup 4.0gr Star Line Case 627
Notes: S&W 627 5" barrel
1.075 oal
Federal primer
Star Line case
Shots: 9
Average: 950 ft/s
SD: 21 ft/s
Min: 920 ft/s
Max: 983 ft/s
Spread: 63 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 118
Power Factor Low: 115
Power Factor High: 122
Weight: 125.0 gr.

 

The exact same load from the same batch on the same day in my 929 (5" barrel)


Name: .38 Short Colt: 125gr Berry's flat point: Titegroup 4.0gr Star Line Case 929
Notes: S&W 929 5" barrel
1.075 oal
Federal primer
Star Line case
Shots: 6
Average: 1046 ft/s
SD: 7 ft/s
Min: 1037 ft/s
Max: 1058 ft/s
Spread: 21 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 130
Power Factor Low: 129
Power Factor High: 132
Weight: 125.0 gr.

 

Could the difference, in this instance, be the free bore before the bullet seals the throat, allowing gas to escape the 627?   The amount of free bore in the 929 will be much less,which could equate to less  lost gas.  In a 627 to comparison,that should not matter.  Different throat dimensions, greater cylinder gap, etc could account for velocity disparities, in those cases.

Jason

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10 minutes ago, Makicjf said:

Could the difference, in this instance, be the free bore before the bullet seals the throat, allowing gas to escape the 627?   The amount of free bore in the 929 will be much less,which could equate to less  lost gas.  In a 627 to comparison,that should not matter.  Different throat dimensions, greater cylinder gap, etc could account for velocity disparities, in those cases.

Jason

yes 

but with my 2 627s the slower one has similar throats and less cylinder gap. some barrels are just faster or slower than others

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Could be.

 

These make ICORE power factor in my friend's 627. A little low in mine.

 

Name: .38 Short Colt: Titegroup 2.8gr,  158gr Berry's Bullet
Notes: Mike R. gave me these to try.
Shots: 7
Average: 734 ft/s
SD: 15 ft/s
Min: 702 ft/s
Max: 746 ft/s
Spread: 44 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 116
Power Factor Low: 110
Power Factor High: 117
Weight: 158.0 gr.
OAL: 1.95
Edited by ysrracer
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Maybe shorten them up a little? I'm running:

  • SNS 160gr RN coated
  • 2.95gr of Titegroup
  • Starline .38 Short Colt brass
  • Federal SPP
  • COL: 1.175"

All measurements taken from a 5" 627:

  • Av: 835 fps (133.6 PF)
  • Min: 784 fps
  • Max: 873 fps
  • ES: 62
  • SD: 25

The SD number tightened up when I switched to a different gun; I think this one had on oversized charge hole. Changing to my 6" 627 upped the average speed to 848 (135.7 PF).

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2 hours ago, ysrracer said:

Could be.

 

These make ICORE power factor in my friend's 627. A little low in mine.

 


Name: .38 Short Colt: Titegroup 2.8gr,  158gr Berry's Bullet
Notes: Mike R. gave me these to try.

 

See above

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6 hours ago, ysrracer said:

I load mine to 1.15

Depending on the bullet.  With 160 Bayou's at under 1.17 I've had a few bulge too much at the base of the bullet, to the point they wouldn't chamber.  Never pulled the bullet to see if it might have been a bit over sized.  But at 1.175 and above I've not seen the issue.  

With lighter bullets the issues didn't show up either, no surprise.  

 

Luckily the 4" 627 Pro I picked up shoots my 160 Bayou's 25 to 30 f/s slower than the 5" PC.  Which is what I wanted.

Both give higher velocities than my 1970's 6" M28 though.

Edited by pskys2
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20 hours ago, pskys2 said:

Depending on the bullet.  With 160 Bayou's at under 1.17 I've had a few bulge too much at the base of the bullet, to the point they wouldn't chamber.  Never pulled the bullet to see if it might have been a bit over sized.  But at 1.175 and above I've not seen the issue.  

 

Damn, now you tell me. Yep I've got some that will chamber as singles, but not in a moon clip :(

 

Good thing I just ordered 500 cases :)

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22 hours ago, pskys2 said:

Depending on the bullet.  With 160 Bayou's at under 1.17 I've had a few bulge too much at the base of the bullet, to the point they wouldn't chamber.  Never pulled the bullet to see if it might have been a bit over sized.  But at 1.175 and above I've not seen the issue.  

 

Man, that was close. I almost pulled a "Wayne Nordwell" :)

 

A 160gr Bayou seated at 1.20 seems to work in my gun. Now I "have" to go back to the range to do more chrono work :)

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3 hours ago, ysrracer said:

 

Man, that was close. I almost pulled a "Wayne Nordwell" :)

 

A 160gr Bayou seated at 1.20 seems to work in my gun. Now I "have" to go back to the range to do more chrono work :)

I settled on 1.180".  Have seen little difference in velocity between 1.170 and 1.190.  And my records show no difference at 1.200, note I went clear out to 1.255 with one load!

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