Sig MPX or JP GMR for PCC?

[zzt]

28 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

THAT is why you hear discussions of recoil control from grown men firing 9mm through a gun which is three times the weight of a shadow 2... and braced against their shoulder.

 

Bingo.  With my short stroked, 5 lb. PCC I can put 147gr JHPs @ 985 fps into the same spot at 50 yards as fast as I can pull the trigger.  My splits are faster than with my Open gun.  Recoil is sharp, but man is it fast.  It's just as you said, sight once, pull twice.  It feels like cheating.

[ck1]

4 hours ago, Chutist said:

So I'm getting the impression that the Sig is "nicer" shooting but has some reliability issues depending on Gen.  It also requires care to keep it running.

 

The JP is a simpler system, well sorted and understood.  Might be a touch less "comfortable" to shoot.  I was surprised to see a discussion of "recoil management" for a 9mm rifle. Interesting reading about the "short stroke" system.  Cheap Glock mags is a plus....and I might have one or two around.  LOL!!!

 

No "bad" choice just different.  

Part of it is going to depend on what pops up for sale, market is crazy right now. 

 

I'll second/third the comments that most reliability issues with the MPX in its current form are owner induced. There is truth in that the earlier ones (pre-"Gen 2" PCC RMPX-16B-9) were indeed kind of a s**t-show... as is common Sig practice these days, whether their guns or dots/optics, we as the consumers are the beta-testers it seems... The newest one is sussed out though (we all can probably thank all the guys that had to ship their Gen 1 MPX's back and forth to Sig too many times).

I've got over 10k through mine without an issue of any kind and I don't baby it, I've only tore it down twice to completely clean it, wiped down and relubed the bolt a couple times in-between those cleanings, but that's it, and I haven't even needed so much as a new extractor spring yet. I DO however run mine wet as hell, I treat it kind of like a 1911, if there's not a little lube coming out then it's too dry lol. I never oil/lube the gas end; it's meant to be run dry. Yes, it's more of a b**tch to clean than a blowback gun, but it's not hard. Really with any good PCC that sees a lot of rounds, cleaning lead out of the comp takes longer than the whole rest of the gun. I've watched more than a few blowback guns (including a couple JP's) choke a bunch of times at matches during the time that mine has been solid; and while I know some of that is luck, it's also that there were changes made from the older MPX's so now they run and aren't the gamble they once were a couple years ago.

 

That said, guys fak them up all the time lol. They're already softer shooting bone stock when using factory FMJ at 145-150pf than blowback guns that guys are pulling out all the tricks on (short-stroking, playing with different buffer setups, pulling/adding bolt weights, etc) and are loading to 125pf. Mine shoots like a Nerf gun using my pistol load that is around 130pf out of a Shadow 2 (so somewhere above 140pf out of the 16" barreled MPX), and the MPX being a gas-piston, I know I could get it to start faking up if I tried to load down to 125-130pf out of it. But that's what guys do, that's the game, so they have problems. Then they try to fix it with playing with springs and before they know it they're in uncharted territory beyond the perimeters where the gun was designed to operate; some get it to work, some go back to a "normal" power factor load, some give up because they can't help themselves from playing with light loads that are too light for it and go to a blowback gun lol. There's a tipping point with the MPX where when a load doesn't make enough gas the gun just isn't going to work reliably, there isn't any magic spring combo to counteract that. Thing is, I can totally relate to guys chasing that magic 130ish pf load out of an MPX because when they're ridiculously fun at 140+pf, I mean who doesn't want more "more" lol? IMO it's counter-intuitive for guys in this sport to stop themselves from looking for "more/better", especially if they have experience loading for pistols or other blowback PCC's, that's just how it is; but, with the MPX it's almost like they should come with etching on the side of the receiver that says "once it's softer than anything else, just leave it alone" lol.

 

As far as already having some Glock mags, doesn't everybody already have a bunch of Glock mags kicking around hahahaha? The MPX mags are pricey yes, but they're also made by Lancer and are great, and IMO are just plain better than Glock mags for a PCC/sub-gun, they were designed purposely for it. When you take a an OEM Glock 33rd mag and add a +10 extension, you end up with a $80 41rd pistol mag that is sketchy-tight to load and usually runs perfectly if you've filed/sanded in the right spots and have a fresh spring, an MPX mag and an extension (41rds too) will run 100%, loads easily and is really only $20 more.

Edited September 10, 2020 by ck1

[Chutist]

I love this board!  Great thoughtful replies by everyone. 

 

Great to be able to go in "eyes open" knowing the trade-offs.  

[sdrr72]

I use a Gen 2 MPX 8" SBR.  Hyperfire trigger and opened gas port.  Probably 5k rounds through it with not a single malfunction at the range or at a match.  Very happy camper here.  Shooting it is just the most fun I've had at a match.

 

I also have an older Colt pattern 9mm AR.  As others have said, yes, the recoil is noticeably more than the MPX.  Perhaps JP with their tuned spring kits mitigates that somewhat.  But I'll keep using my MPX.

[Ner]

Tough situation here. I have a nice blowback PCC shooting Factory 124. Want to buy Dillon and start reloading to try to chase some guys that shoot MPXes and other good gas weeps. So the question is..If someday after i will own an MPX, will it benefit of selfloaded ammo? Or i'm better keep moneh and don't start reloading and buy MPX sooner and keep shooting factory ammo?

[smoker 01]

I have the new MPX for about a year now and I only do reload

I reload to 128-130PF and it shoots perfect and great so no problems with reloaded ammo

It is like shooting .22 with my ammo

124gr bullit and 3.8grains of Vitavuori 320

[Neomet]

I have a Gen 2 MPX, a MPX PCC, and a GMR-15 short stroked with a hydraulic buffer. My Gen 2 started becoming a problem child at @ 20K rounds. My MPX PCC, with all of the upgrades that it came with from the factory,  has been absolutely reliable, but I don't have 20K yet on it. My JP has been as reliable as the sun rising in the east. 

 

Even after fiddling with the JP short stroking, hydraulic buffering, and more load combinations than I care to admit, my MPX PCC is still softer/faster to shoot at the 145PF I run it at. I actually prefer the feel at that level as opposed to the triple-ply Downey softness of 125PF. I can pretty much throw any ammo in there with that PF and it makes no difference. Local matches I always have been grabbing the MPX PCC even though the JP is a seriously fine PCC.  It is just that its operating system is inherently going to hit you harder in the shoulder.  I will say though, after having my Gen 2 go single shot on me at a major I would be strongly inclined to look at the JP if I am going to invest a ton of money to travel to a major in the future.  

[Rainman901]

Read CK1's post first, very well said.

 

I have a MPX PCC.  I got it about 3 months ago right before the current mess we are experiencing.  I was tired of messing with the Glock mags and extensions, Failure to feed etc. 

I'll add that my MPX does not care what I put in it and it runs. 115gr, 124gr, 130gr Syntech 147gr, Federal 150gr Syntech and my HST hollow points.  They all run with no issues. Added TTI mag extension and worked right out of the box with no issues, filing grinding or sanding needed.

 

All I can add to the JP side is they are very nice guns and the ones I have seen run very well. As CK1 said, once you start messing with any them then things start to get sketchy.  

 

 

[Chutist]

I think after all considered.... I'm going to give the MPX a go.  Just have to find one in stock somewhere....not going to pay "Gunbroker" prices.

 

I've been wrong before but the MPX PCC seems like a good bet.  

 

 

[zzt]

 

1 hour ago, Chutist said:

I've been wrong before but the MPX PCC seems like a good bet.  

 

If you decide you don't like it you'll have no trouble selling it.

[philmadxx]

JP all the way.  MPX has the cool factor going for it, no doubt it is bad *ss - but for ultimate reliability, go with JP - that is what I did after a LOT of research, talking with owners, etc.  I narrowed it down to MBX, Scorpion, MPX and GMR-15.  All great guns and I am huge CZ fan but every owner except the JP's said they "had to use  XXX ammo", or "flatpoints don't feed" or "won't cycle with", etc.  Not with JP.  Just goes bang every time.   

For competition use, the options available for the Glock style mags is reason enough to choose the JP.  

 

Good luck.

Phil 

[Malcolm31]

I’ve gotta agree with Phil.  My JP GMR eats whatever 9mm I put in the Glock mags.  It’s super accurate, incredibly reliable, and a blast to shoot.  In fact, it is one of my favorite guns to shoot.

 

plus...code: 68SS0717 saves you 10% on JP parts or 5% on complete JP rifles.

[Chutist]

Picked up an MPX today!  Had to drive about 3 hours to get it!

 

Now I have to figure out what optic to put on it. . 

Round up a few spare mags.

 

And the HARD PART, find some 9mm ammo.  

[ck1]

On 10/2/2020 at 10:54 PM, Chutist said:

Picked up an MPX today!  Had to drive about 3 hours to get it!

 

Now I have to figure out what optic to put on it. . 

Round up a few spare mags.

 

And the HARD PART, find some 9mm ammo.  

 

Awesome, let us know how it goes/what you think...

 

As far as the ammo shortage: maybe if you can scrape up enough rounds to hit a match, you could try and offer some cash $$$ to one of the guys who's sitting on 80k primers from the last election cycle to make you some rounds, there's always a couple of those dudes out there, maybe someone will hook you up hahaha! 

[Chutist]

42 minutes ago, ck1 said:

 

Awesome, let us know how it goes/what you think...

 

As far as the ammo shortage: maybe if you can scrape up enough rounds to hit a match, you could try and offer some cash $$$ to one of the guys who's sitting on 80k primers from the last election cycle to make you some rounds, there's always a couple of those dudes out there, maybe someone will hook you up hahaha! 

1K cases of Blazer popped up on Midway for a couple of hours...two prices but here we are, it will be here Wednesday. . I have a few K primers and am waiting on one part to finish rolling my 1050 back to 9mm.  Press was originally 9x21 for my Open gun back in the 90's.  I NEVER thought I'd load 9 since it was $10 a box at Walmart...  I converted it to .40 for Limited a decade ago.  CO is just to much fun to shoot limited.  Local match lets you shoot a second gun, so I'll shoot CO and PCC.  

 

More Shooting = More FUN! 

[biggulp]

On 10/2/2020 at 11:54 PM, Chutist said:

Now I have to figure out what optic to put on it. . 

Round up a few spare mags.

 

If it's going to be a match gun then an aluminum bodied C-More is pretty much impossible to beat.  Click switch for positive on/off/brightness adjustment, any dot size you want, huge viewing window, and good battery life.  

 

When you're rounding up the spare mags, be sure to grab a couple of TTI +11s.  Only downside to the setup is that you may forget how to do a reload  

 

As others have noted, a lot of the reliability issues that get talked about were with the non-PCC version and/or are self inflicted.  If you run it with factory guts and keep it lubed, it'll be rock solid.  Start dicking with springs and the gas system to chase mouse fart loads and you'll probably hate life.

 

Mine runs everything from hot 115 nato stuff to the Syntech action pistol stuff flawlessly.  My last couple of matches, I've used my BORA (bag of random ammo) which is a mix of Magtech, Blazer, Federal, WWB, etc., in everything from 115-150 grain.  Mags were loaded with random handfuls of ammo and aside from the syntech stuff (red bullets) I had no clue what I was running.  MPX didn't care as I ended up 3rd  and 6th out of about 75 shooters 

Edited October 8, 2020 by biggulp

[Chutist]

6 hours ago, biggulp said:

 

If it's going to be a match gun then an aluminum bodied C-More is pretty much impossible to beat.  Click switch for positive on/off/brightness adjustment, any dot size you want, huge viewing window, and good battery life.  

 

When you're rounding up the spare mags, be sure to grab a couple of TTI +11s.  Only downside to the setup is that you may forget how to do a reload  

 

As others have noted, a lot of the reliability issues that get talked about were with the non-PCC version and/or are self inflicted.  If you run it with factory guts and keep it lubed, it'll be rock solid.  Start dicking with springs and the gas system to chase mouse fart loads and you'll probably hate life.

 

Mine runs everything from hot 115 nato stuff to the Syntech action pistol stuff flawlessly.  My last couple of matches, I've used my BORA (bag of random ammo) which is a mix of Magtech, Blazer, Federal, WWB, etc., in everything from 115-150 grain.  Mags were loaded with random handfuls of ammo and aside from the syntech stuff (red bullets) I had no clue what I was running.  MPX didn't care as I ended up 3rd  and 6th out of about 75 shooters 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

I ran C-More's for years.  I still have 4 or 5 batteries around from the old days... I lived in fear of leaving it on or not being able to get a battery! 

 

I have a Vortex on a Glock Gen 5 17 MOX that may get "reallocated" in the short term.   Really liking the Sig Romeo Max on my X5, I'm leaning strongly toward just getting another one of those just for commonality and they use the same battery.

 

"BORA".   I have those per caliber - big bag of .40.  With 9mm so hard to find, it's all accounted for!  

Edited October 8, 2020 by Chutist

[Neomet]

9 hours ago, Chutist said:

Thanks for the feedback.

 

I ran C-More's for years.  I still have 4 or 5 batteries around from the old days... I lived in fear of leaving it on or not being able to get a battery! 

 

 

Quick sidebar here. You can stack two 357 batteries in a Cmore. Every bit as bright as the standard photo battery. They don't seem to last quite as long but are cheap as dirt and you can get them at any drugstore. Getting two batteries in the compartment takes a little dexterity.  

[Chutist]

Got to play with the MPX yesterday! Pulled an EOTECH off a Duty rifle and put it on the MPX, a little overkill but it will work for now! 

I have a USPSA match Sunday so it was mostly pistol practice but...

I sighted in the MPX at 25 yards and then ran the "stage" i had set up to practice on.  Man it's like CHEATING with the rifle!  Put about 150 rounds through the MPX without a hiccup!   Times with the rifle were as good as the pistol right way! 

 

I'm afraid to let my Family shoot it, I might not get it back!    

Two more mags will be here Friday.  

Thanks again to all that responded  

[Fasthenk65]

PCC is sooo much more fun then pistol  don't tell them squads will flood

[chgofirefighter]

I've owned the SIG MPX Gen 2, zero issues and it shoots extremely flat compared to other PCC's.  Did a few upgrades, etc and thus far she's been extremely reliable.  Any pistol or PCC can give you problems, no platform is totally immune from not functioning, breaking or whatever.  If you do your due diligence, maintenance is key, oiled, etc than you eliminate most if not all of the problems except of course those issues that can't be controlled. 

 

I'm mainly shooting Open and CO now, but soon I will jump back to PCC.  Whatever you decide to get, maintenance is key...