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Q5 SF extraction/double feeding issue


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Hi all I want to ask some opinions/help. I acquired a new Q5 SF in May. I like it so much that after the first day of shooting it I decided to switch from Sig P320 X5 and shoot IDPA/USPSA with it. I put 2,000 rounds in one month to train, and in June the day before my first planned match with it, its striker broke. To me this is very unusual because nothing like this ever happened. I posted here for help too. Got in touch with Walther and they sent me a new striker assembly. So that issue is resolved. 

 

The issue I am asking is the malfunction I experience, mostly extraction/double feeding. The empty casing would be stuck in the chamber as the next live round is pushed against it, with the slide stuck open. I have this issue from day 1. It happens somewhere everyone 200-ish rounds. At the beginning I thought maybe it was break in. Later maybe it is ammo related. At the time I was using Remington 115gr. However, during the time I was waiting for the new striker, my other pistols (P320 X5 and CZ) have 0 issues with that ammo. After receiving the new striker, I started to shoot with other ammo, mostly 115gr and 124 gr factory ammo (Federal, S&B, Fiocchi etc), and also 150gr Federal Syntech. And I again have the double feeding/extraction issue once in a while. It actually happens to every brand of ammo, no exception. Two weeks ago I ran Tula 115gr steel case. It isn't "once in a while" anymore -- I could not get through a single mag without malfunction. On the contrary, every other pistols I have, Sig, CZ, Glock, have zero issue with any ammo whatsoever (brass or steel).

 

I called Walther and the rep sent me a new extractor and extractor spring. I installed it over the weekend and went to the range. Same thing. Can't get through a single mag with steel ammo. As a final check, I ran my polymer PPQ and it has no problem with the steel ammo. So I think it is fair to say that the problem is with this particular Q5 SF.

 

I called Walther today and asked perhaps a new recoil spring is necessary. The rep said no and just send the pistol back.

 

Anyone has any ideas? I still think the chance of the slide itself being out-of-spec is pretty low.  But with my broken striker issue I might just have the bad luck.

 

I also searched and saw other posts about extraction issue. I don't know if they are related.

 

Very frustrated as I still can not run it in match -- I really want to.

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I had same issues. From my experience to get the gun to run better, 
 

1.  Keith’s extra power spring

2. Frequent cleaning. SF does not like to run dirty. Unlike the G34 I used to run which I can go a few range trips and matches without cleaning, SF needs a good cleaning just about every trip

3.  Picky for ammo.  I’ve had good luck with Federal black box 115’s and Syntech 150’s. Syntech have issue once a while not locking slide open after last round but otherwise runs ok

 

 

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21 minutes ago, thx1138jt said:

I had same issues. From my experience to get the gun to run better, 
 

1.  Keith’s extra power spring

2. Frequent cleaning. SF does not like to run dirty. Unlike the G34 I used to run which I can go a few range trips and matches without cleaning, SF needs a good cleaning just about every trip

3.  Picky for ammo.  I’ve had good luck with Federal black box 115’s and Syntech 150’s. Syntech have issue once a while not locking slide open after last round but otherwise runs ok

 

 


It’s interesting how the changes made when producing the Steel Frame model change things.

 

My poly framed Q5s and PPQs routinely go 2,000+ rounds without being cleaned. Just re-oiled before every trip. And they’re indifferent to what type of ammo they are fed.

 

Hmm.

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Yeah, I had trouble also with Syntech 150’s and lighter recoil spring, as those rounds are pretty soft and slide is slow coming forward already due to cocking the striker at the end of the cycle. 

 

 

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Hi thanks for all the advices. I will try Keith's extra power spring.

 

However, I couldn't understand how a stock part does not function with most factory ammo. If so shouldn't that part be replaced/fixed by the manufacturer (in this case Walther)?

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3 hours ago, thx1138jt said:

I had same issues. From my experience to get the gun to run better, 
 

1.  Keith’s extra power spring

2. Frequent cleaning. SF does not like to run dirty. Unlike the G34 I used to run which I can go a few range trips and matches without cleaning, SF needs a good cleaning just about every trip

3.  Picky for ammo.  I’ve had good luck with Federal black box 115’s and Syntech 150’s. Syntech have issue once a while not locking slide open after last round but otherwise runs ok

 

 

 

Is "frequent cleaning" a well known fact to run Q5 SF smoothly? I want to make sure. To be honest if it is, I am a little turned off. I always keep my pistols clean. But it is because I want to, not I have to.

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On 9/8/2020 at 9:23 AM, D_B_X said:

...The empty casing would be stuck in the chamber as the next live round is pushed against it, with the slide stuck open. I have this issue from day 1. It happens somewhere everyone 200-ish rounds...

 

Exactly the same with my SF.  I have tried the stronger ejector spring, cleaning religiously, different ammo and different recoil springs.  Once or twice a match (about 200 rounds) failure to eject.

 

At this point I feel there may be a stacking of tolerances on some pistols that can't be fixed and should be replaced.  But good luck to us.

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2 hours ago, BartCarter said:

Exactly the same with my SF.  I have tried the stronger ejector spring, cleaning religiously, different ammo and different recoil springs.  Once or twice a match (about 200 rounds) failure to eject.

 

At this point I feel there may be a stacking of tolerances on some pistols that can't be fixed and should be replaced.  But good luck to us.

Thanks for the information. Although I have already ordered the stronger extractor spring from Keith, I think I will send the pistol back to Walther and see what they can do about it. This consistent failure really bothers me, especially when it happens to every brand of ammo I have run. At the same time all of my other pistols (including polymer PPQ) have no complaints about any ammo.

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11 hours ago, D_B_X said:

... I think I will send the pistol back to Walther and see what they can do about it. This consistent failure really bothers me, especially when it happens to every brand of ammo I have run. At the same time all of my other pistols (including polymer PPQ) have no complaints about any ammo.

Keep us informed.  If you can get some results from Walther, there is hope for the rest of us.  I have many PPQs, none of which have ever had a problem.  The fact that non-factory modifications are needed to make some of the SFs run is not right, especially at their price point.  I don't use anything but factory approved ammo and I still have the problems.  I shoot with some SF owners that have had to do nothing to theirs and they run fine.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I bought the Keith spring before my SF arrived expecting ejection problems from all the forums posts. I have never put it in. I was having ejection problems and went with the ZR guide rod and 1911 flat 15lb flat recoil spring and haven't had any issues in thousands of rounds. I did polish the feed ramp and I use Grams followers. No special cleaning for this SF, it is a USPSA competition gun so gets put through the ring. It's been dry fired 100's of hours. The striker firing pin did break from too many dry fire trigger pulls, so I stopped pulling the trigger all the way. Good luck with yours. I wish I could look at and abuse your SF to see what's causing your issues....It is a good gun.

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I messaged Hwansik Kim and he stated that the older versions of the Q5 SF came with an extractor spring used in the polymer versions of Walther pistols and it has since been changed out to the type spring that Keith White is selling.  Hwansik also recommended a power factor no less than 135.  I ordered the springs and will see what happens.  Keith is very easy to deal with......nice guy.

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I shoot for Team Walther, I was having the same type of malfunctions at about 1/200+ rounds. I changed the guide rod, extractor spring and to the new walther extractor spring (I also bought the keith white spring just in case) and I haven't had a malfunction sense. That was about 7000+ rounds ago.

 

I do not clean my gun very often and it still runs. I hate to hear that you are experiencing these issues but try what others and I have suggested. If that doesn't work send it back, they will get it taken care of one way or another. 

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7 hours ago, Prov1x said:

I shoot for Team Walther, I was having the same type of malfunctions at about 1/200+ rounds. I changed the guide rod, extractor spring and to the new walther extractor spring (I also bought the keith white spring just in case) and I haven't had a malfunction sense. That was about 7000+ rounds ago.

 

I do not clean my gun very often and it still runs. I hate to hear that you are experiencing these issues but try what others and I have suggested. If that doesn't work send it back, they will get it taken care of one way or another. 

What guide rod did you change to?

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Thank you all for the suggestions. I did order the spring from Keith White. (He is nice to deal with.) However, it's been 2 weeks and I haven't received it. I know USPS is failing me -- somehow my luck with this Q5 SF is simply lacking. Without the new spring to try, I packed it up last night and sent it to Walther today. I will let you know what happens.

 

Hearing the advices, some of which came from pro shooters, gave me mixed feelings. On one hand it's comforting to know it can be fixed by changing parts. On the other hand, it's a little sad to know a $1500 pistol can not run reliably out of factory. I was really giving up on it. But as I was packing it last night, I held it in my hand, and, once again, instantly love how it balances and fits my hand. If only it can run reliably, sigh....

 

Thank you all again.

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8 hours ago, Prov1x said:

zr tactical, a 15# flat wire wilson combat 1911 spring and a 6# glock striker spring. 

Exactly what I use. 

People seem afraid to change parts, springs, triggers etc to have their gun run better. You don't buy a jeep and take it to a trail and expect it to "tear it up" with all stock parts. Shoot only ammo over 135 power factor? Why? when all you have to do is change the recoil spring to make it run any power factor you want. I own several guns and every one of them have been "tweeked" one way or another. 

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Here is the final episode of my Q5 SF:

 

Walther sent me a video of the technician test firing the pistol. He fired 4 different types of ammo (115 and 124gr), each with one mag 15 rounds, and found no issue. The pistol is deemed good and they will send it back to me. I called the service number and tried to explain my problem -- I wrote a detailed description when I sent it in

The lady answering the phone was impatient.

-- She kept saying "if he can't find an issue he can't fix it."

-- When I said the issue won't occur in 60 rounds, it occurs every 200-ish round. She said, "Ammo is hard to come by and we don't have ammo to shoot that many rounds".

-- She then said, "maybe it is fatigue. Shooter's fatigue. Not pistol". I admit this got me agitated.

-- I said, try steel ammo. It will fail every mag. She said "we don't shoot steel". 

-- When I said this is not an uncommon problem, and people on forum have various ways of "fixing" it. In particular, Mr. Keith White's extra power extractor spring seems to be able to fix it in many cases. She said, "I suggest you try his spring. And if it works, it is fixed."

-- When I said "I have bought Mr. White's spring. But for a $1500 pistol, the factory should be responsible for its reliability with factory ammo. Not customer's job to do so." She responded "Failure in every 200-300 rounds is acceptable." This was when I finally got upset. I said, then how come my CZ, Glock, Mp9, Sig can all go on 10,000 rounds without issues and your $1500 pistol can go no more than 300?

-- To this, she returned to  "Well if he can't find it he can't fix it." And "we don't have ammo to fire 300 rounds."

I realized we were in a loop that won't go anywhere.

 

So this is it. I will receive it back. I will try Keith White's spring. If it works, I will continue to use it for range gun. I will never purchase another Walther product. I know one customer is not important to a big enterprise like Walther. But to me, this is a principle and I will stick to it.

 

For a drastic comparison, my Sig P320 X5 has eaten through all kinds of factory ammo nearly 40,000 rounds without a single issue. 

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18 hours ago, D_B_X said:

...She responded "Failure in every 200-300 rounds is acceptable."...

So, what is not acceptable?  Failure in 150 rounds?  Failure in 100 rounds?  2 or 3 failures in a match?  I have had 3 in one match.

 

So, no mention of the "new walther extractor spring"?

 

This is not acceptable.  There is probably some sort of tolerance stacking, but it seems that some of us are on the the wrong end of it.  Walther can easily see the problem by shooting AL cased ammo, but will not do it.  Why would any pistol not shoot AL or steel cased ammo, if needed?

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22 hours ago, D_B_X said:

Here is the final episode of my Q5 SF:

 

Walther sent me a video of the technician test firing the pistol. He fired 4 different types of ammo (115 and 124gr), each with one mag 15 rounds, and found no issue. The pistol is deemed good and they will send it back to me. I called the service number and tried to explain my problem -- I wrote a detailed description when I sent it in

The lady answering the phone was impatient.

-- She kept saying "if he can't find an issue he can't fix it."

-- When I said the issue won't occur in 60 rounds, it occurs every 200-ish round. She said, "Ammo is hard to come by and we don't have ammo to shoot that many rounds".

-- She then said, "maybe it is fatigue. Shooter's fatigue. Not pistol". I admit this got me agitated.

-- I said, try steel ammo. It will fail every mag. She said "we don't shoot steel". 

-- When I said this is not an uncommon problem, and people on forum have various ways of "fixing" it. In particular, Mr. Keith White's extra power extractor spring seems to be able to fix it in many cases. She said, "I suggest you try his spring. And if it works, it is fixed."

-- When I said "I have bought Mr. White's spring. But for a $1500 pistol, the factory should be responsible for its reliability with factory ammo. Not customer's job to do so." She responded "Failure in every 200-300 rounds is acceptable." This was when I finally got upset. I said, then how come my CZ, Glock, Mp9, Sig can all go on 10,000 rounds without issues and your $1500 pistol can go no more than 300?

-- To this, she returned to  "Well if he can't find it he can't fix it." And "we don't have ammo to fire 300 rounds."

I realized we were in a loop that won't go anywhere.

 

So this is it. I will receive it back. I will try Keith White's spring. If it works, I will continue to use it for range gun. I will never purchase another Walther product. I know one customer is not important to a big enterprise like Walther. But to me, this is a principle and I will stick to it.

 

For a drastic comparison, my Sig P320 X5 has eaten through all kinds of factory ammo nearly 40,000 rounds without a single issue. 

I'll take your SF...! I promise it will never see steel ammo...ever.

 

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I have a Q5 SF Pro - stock except for a Precision Overwatch trigger.  About 1500 rounds, no failures of any kind.  I'll be really disappointed if it starts to act up.  While I agree that a gun might not be "race ready" out of the box, it should absolutely be reliable.  To me, failure 1 in 200 means you have a failure at every match, more or less and that  means I can't live with it.  I bought the SF because I was having issues with my Shadow 2 that I haven't sorted out yet, still working on it.  Again, very disappointed to hear of your issues - I hope you get them sorted out.  

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