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Walther Q5 extraction issues


Blackstone45
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My friend has been having trouble with his Walther Q5. The gun sometimes doesn't fully eject a case, causing a jam. It also often doesn't lock back on the last round. It locks back every time when the slide is racked with an empty magazine.

Based on those two issues, I would say it's caused by the slide not going all the way to the rear during recoil. It's not a problem with ammunition, as it also occurs with full power factory ammo. So could it be an issue with the recoil spring?

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On 9/6/2020 at 12:35 AM, ohsevenflhx said:

Stock recoil spring is too strong. Get a reduced strength recoil spring or cut a coil off of the stock spring. It's a common issue.

 

Having trouble finding a reduced strength spring on the internet. All the results I'm getting are for the DPM spring.

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Being that my name is being tossed out a lot in the above post I would like to talk a little about the issue I had with the Walther Q5 SF and the development of the new stronger extractor spring that some of you have used. 

 

When I received my first Q5 SF early last year I was having many failures to “extract”, this is different than failure to eject and will likely look like the spent case is left partly in the chamber and the next round it stuck behind it. The only good way to clear this jam is to drop the Mag and to then re-battery the empty case and manually eject it by hand. I personally fought this issue for months until I came to a solution for the issue.

 

I now own a Q5 SF Pro, Q5 SF and a Q4 SF. Both the Pro and regular SF have had this issue. I can make the issue worst by increasing the PF of the load but could not totally eliminate it by decreasing the load. It mostly happened with 9 rounds in the Mag and hardly with just a few rounds. It seems to be more pronounced the harder I held my gun. I also seemed to be more related to some of the range cases I ran as I hand load and have a little of everything.

 

So being an engineer I dove deep into this issue and came to the conclusion that there are many factors that could cause this issue and it is not just one single thing that would get me out but at the time I was getting very frustrated and started a deep dive. First question, why was it never my Q5 polymer and just the steel frame guns. Started to look at differences between the two but for extraction there was little difference and all the parts measured and looked exactly the same under my analysis. In fact, the only difference I could really put my finger on was the weight of the gun, the steel frame was considerably heavier than the polymer Q5. I have also played a lot with the Spring-co recoil system but at the time the issue was just as bad between the stock spring and the Spring-Co recoil system using three different buffer springs.  So, my conclusion was that the heavy gun did not recoil as much causing the extractor to pull from the case at the point of firing. This made sense as I could make the issue increase by increasing PF on loads, some of the range cases seemed to fail more often than others and that it mostly happened with a full magazine of rounds, i.e. gun at it very heaviest. 

 

Now with all this going on you are talking many different interactions taking place and the statistical probability that we are looking a multiple cause and effects interactions. So, I had to really make a change to eliminate this issue. Can’t change the weight of the gun, really didn’t want to rely on a particular brand of loads, as I reload and don’t want to sort and separate. So, the only two options left was the extractor spring force and the extractor design. Oh, this assumed I had already accepted the fact that lower PF was better and my go to load now is a !47 gr RN FMJ with 3.5 gr of N321 powder and I run the length 1.130 as the gun seems to love this, shoots very soft.

 

Over a time of 5 months I played a lot with spring designs and come up with the one now in my guns. That one change, with the lower PF loads, eliminated my issue 100%. I can’t remember the last time I had an FTE on any of my steel guns as the first thing I do is replace the extractor spring. I also moved back to the original stock recoil spring in my guns.

 

So, I run the lower PF loads, range case, N321 powder at 3.5 gr and 147 gr RN FMJ Everglade bullets set at a length of 1.130. The new strong extractor spring and original stock Walther recoil spring. Haven’t seen any issues for over a year now.

 

Please remember that you are talking so many interactions on this issue that the solution could be one change or combination of change. You can also file your extractor hook if you want but be careful with that one. 

 

Good luck with your issues as I was just about to the point of tossing my Q5 SF in the river, but I love them all now, as I do all my guns and smile every time, I look at them.

 

Very Kind Regards, Keith White

 

Keithwhite100@gmail.com

 

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@Keithwhite100 Thanks for your review of your efforts.  I faced a similar dilemma with extraction jams and did not shoot my Q5SF in matches pretty much for over a year until that was sorted out with a stronger extractor spring.  I’ve been able to make it work with down to a 12# recoil spring (glock 34) with ~135PF 124 gr rounds.  Looking at my current setup, I did notice that it requires a good bit of force to unlock and extract an unfired  round from the chamber, way more than my CZs.  Wonder if there is an issue with a tight lockup in this gun that is showing up as trouble with extraction.  I slightly polished the top edge of the front of the barrel hood that locks up, which seemed to help.  Interested in others observations.

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Ran 2 matches this weekend.  Normal cleaning on the first match, one failure to extract.  Deeper cleaning on the second match, including firing pin channel, extractor, etc., two failure to extract.  I had Keith White's extractor spring.

 

I am going to put the factory extractor spring back in, shoot enough rounds (all I use is factory ammo) to get a feel of when FTEs occur and call Walther service.

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  • 6 months later...

OK...so many options, I hate trying to solve function issues, for some it is an interesting challenge, for me its like vintage bikes...I don't want to be starring at 'vintage' at the side of the road, wishing I had better cell coverage. 

So, long story short, FTE's, pretty regular, but...my gun came to me with 2 recoil springs, here is a picture, for starters can someone tell me which is stock, and if they know what value might the 'other' one be? In case it isn't obvious, the left one is 'silver' and the right side is 'red'...

 

Thanks guys,

Jim

 

 

IMG_2926.jpg

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/16/2021 at 10:47 AM, jakfrost1 said:

OK...so many options, I hate trying to solve function issues, for some it is an interesting challenge, for me its like vintage bikes...I don't want to be starring at 'vintage' at the side of the road, wishing I had better cell coverage. 

So, long story short, FTE's, pretty regular, but...my gun came to me with 2 recoil springs, here is a picture, for starters can someone tell me which is stock, and if they know what value might the 'other' one be? In case it isn't obvious, the left one is 'silver' and the right side is 'red'...

 

Thanks guys,

Jim

 

 

IMG_2926.jpg

Again no fails to extract, failure to feed in thousands of rounds now. The post above 

https://www.zrtacticalsolutions.com/shop/walther-ppq-uncaptured-stainless-guide-rod/

 

https://shopwilsoncombat.com/Flat-Wire-Recoil-Spring-5-Full-Size-Chrome-Silicon-15-Lb/productinfo/614G15/

 

use the 15 or 13lb spring. I prefer the 15.

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Tried the easiest solution first, bumped up the PF to 135 and bingo no more extraction issue! AND, I as insurance I installed the spring from Keith White, and now have massaged my load down to 3.2g of N320 and PF of 130...runs like a raped ape! 

I also installed the Walther TAC Trigger and the Walther LowPro RMR Optics Adapter Plate under the Trijicon SRO from CHPWS...got to run a few hundred rds thru the gun this morning, super pleased the the trigger. I installed the 'Red' spring, the kit comes with 2, 4lbs and 3lbs. The red one checked in exactly at 44 ozs on the scale. The reset is sick...made me giggle, did a 10rd Bill Drill in 3.18sec! 2 charlies at 10ys, LOL. 

So...all is good now, just need to find someone who can help me find 1 grip screw for the Q5 Steel Frame. Arggg. Smallest screw I've seen in a grip, ever! 

 

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On 4/11/2021 at 7:36 PM, jakfrost1 said:

Tried the easiest solution first, bumped up the PF to 135 and bingo no more extraction issue! AND, I as insurance I installed the spring from Keith White, and now have massaged my load down to 3.2g of N320 and PF of 130...runs like a raped ape! 

I also installed the Walther TAC Trigger and the Walther LowPro RMR Optics Adapter Plate under the Trijicon SRO from CHPWS...got to run a few hundred rds thru the gun this morning, super pleased the the trigger. I installed the 'Red' spring, the kit comes with 2, 4lbs and 3lbs. The red one checked in exactly at 44 ozs on the scale. The reset is sick...made me giggle, did a 10rd Bill Drill in 3.18sec! 2 charlies at 10ys, LOL. 

So...all is good now, just need to find someone who can help me find 1 grip screw for the Q5 Steel Frame. Arggg. Smallest screw I've seen in a grip, ever! 

 


Save yourself a bunch of hassle. the factory screws strip the heads so fast. 

these torx ones should do the trick. 

M3 torx screws

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20 hours ago, Hdiamond said:


Save yourself a bunch of hassle. the factory screws strip the heads so fast. 

these torx ones should do the trick. 

M3 torx screws

Thanks for the link Hdiamond! I'll order a bunch of them, hope they ship to Canada! 

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20 hours ago, Hdiamond said:


Save yourself a bunch of hassle. the factory screws strip the heads so fast. 

these torx ones should do the trick. 

M3 torx screws

Just had time to sit down and check out the site, no issues to Canada, at least nothing $20.00 for shipping wouldn't cure, lol! At least they will be on their way, thanks again for the link! 

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