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Area 8 / RO Downrange?


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13 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

Your definition of "180 Trap" would apply to stages in almost every single match (Level 1, 2 & 3) I have attended since starting this game in 2008. Knowing where the 180 is vs your muzzle angle is a required skill that is tested all the time in matches. There are no "180 Traps" if the stages are setup in a legal manner. There are simply parts of stages where you are afforded the opportunity to make the wrong safety decisions. If you choose to generally ignore safety and not build muzzle pointing safeguards into your stage plan to avoid safety issues, then you fully deserve being DQed when it happens. This is called cause and effect. If people choose to be ignorant then they also get to reap the "benefits" of said ignorance.  

 

You're either exaggerating or didn't understand his post. 

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23 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

 

You're either exaggerating or didn't understand his post. 

 

What is there to exaggerate? I have attended 50 - 60 Level 1's and 10 - 15 Level 2/3 matches every year since 2008. That is at LEAST 700+ matches and 4500 stages combined. I would venture to guess that at least 95% of those matches had at least 1 stage where you were contending with the 180 in one manner or another. Facing Up Range Draw start positions, Reloading against the grain, retreating up range to shooting positions, props to manipulate, targets visible beyond the 180, and on and on and on. 

 

That is my whole point here. The game of USPSA REQUIRES competitors to be competent in producing safe gun handling at ALL TIMES regardless of the stage design. There will ALWAYS be stages that push competitors ability to successfully maintain safe gun handling. That is part of the game we play. If you or others don't feel comfortable with that reality, then find a different game to play.

Edited by CHA-LEE
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15 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

What is there to exaggerate? I have attend 50 - 60 Level 1's and 10 - 15 Level 2/3 matches every year since 2008. That is at LEAST 700+ matches and 4500 stages combined. I would venture to guess that at least 95% of those matches had at least 1 stage where you were contending with the 180 in one manner or another. Facing Up Range Draw start positions, Reloading against the grain, retreating up range to shooting positions, props to manipulate, targets visible beyond the 180, and on and on and on. 

 

1st I did read your comment wrong, you said every match I thought you said every stage. I'd still say that seems like a bit of a exaggeration but not quit as much. I know I haven't been to that many matches where all the competitors are saying things like "go look at stage 13", "watch the 180 in the back"..."careful on ULSC"....."did you hear ____ got DQ'd on 13?" etc etc all weekend long. So far this year that's the only stage I've heard that kind of talk about. Clearly something seemed to be up just to create so much talk, and even with all that concern people still broke the 180.

 

I still think the stage was a good one. I just would or preferred to see it set up so the spot where you know people are likely to break the 180 doesn't have them pointing their gun at the parking lot and the whole squad standing at the back of the bay. I can't say for sure that happened, but I'd bet of the 20+ people who DQ'd there someone got flagged. 

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8 hours ago, Stephen7942 said:

Don't think I would be standing there. Not sure how the stage was setup, but why not stand behind the shooter?

Because the timer RO is already b hind the shooter. The secondary RO should be somewhere different for a different perspective 

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10 hours ago, Stephen7942 said:

Don't think I would be standing there. Not sure how the stage was setup, but why not stand behind the shooter?

 

2 hours ago, Sarge said:

Because the timer RO is already b hind the shooter. The secondary RO should be somewhere different for a different perspective 

 

I think on this stage there where 4 RO's one about opposite the RO in question one with the timer and one with the tablet. 

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Definitely not downrange, but definitely stupid positioning. Any 180 call that doesn't sweep him will be a bad call as it will be a 50% call at best, way below the threshold for when a DQ should be issued. Absolutely nobody can call a 180 on a non-sweep from that position. I 100% agree with Troy's analysis.  

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By any chance are you guys posting in the wrong thread?

I see proper popper calibration and  not standing in the 180.

Don't see this discussion.

Edited by AHI
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On 8/30/2020 at 4:23 PM, muncie21 said:

I shot Area 8 and like a few others that actually shot the match mention, the RO wasn't as close to the 180 as the picture/video make it seem, at least not when my squad shot that stage.

 

For those that weren't there, a sketch from the match book is below.  While not 100% accurate it gives you and idea of where the shooter needed to stand in order to hit the targets on the left, while standing in the box on the right side. 

image.png.59a3ac62d85b6e96924998cac869bc9f.png

Wow, this picture looks a whole lot different that the OP's picture!

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I was there, shot this stage.

  • It was put down exactly as the stage diagram in the match book.
  • It was a textbook RO sitting on the 180 watching you draw the gun stage.
    • Every Area 8 I shot they make it a habit of putting ROs on 180s like this... its never an issue and the RO is always well up range of where the shots go
  • That target was the first one you shot off the draw so the risk of swinging the gun over towards the RO was not something that you'd like do as you were going to transition to the right after that stack.
  • That RO was a good 10-12ft away from the target  and with the angle you were shooting at you'd have to probably point the gun a 25-30* 'back' to sweep the RO... so he wasn't in the line of fire by any means.
  • Its no different than any other major where you shoot/run along a 180 and an RO is watching you.  

With that being said... that's a ballsy place to stand and something I avoid even when not ROing/at club matches.  You are essentially down range of the muzzle, even if its within the rules as being 'safe'. 

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