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rowdyb
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There are are three clubs local to me. They all stick to the rules. Never try to implement any club rules. I think it makes a difference that certified CRO’s and RO’s are thick as thieves in our immediate area. We, as in shooters and RO’s, hold our matches to pretty high standards.

  You rarely hear,”it’s just a club match”, around here. I love it personally.

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54 minutes ago, Sarge said:

There are are three clubs local to me. They all stick to the rules. Never try to implement any club rules. I think it makes a difference that certified CRO’s and RO’s are thick as thieves in our immediate area. We, as in shooters and RO’s, hold our matches to pretty high standards.

  You rarely hear,”it’s just a club match”, around here. I love it personally.

 

You mean SO's right?

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3 hours ago, rowdyb said:

How well does your club follow the current rule book? And how do you feel about if they do/don't?

My club is really good about following the rules for the most part. At the club level you don't really know if all the squads are doing it right, but for the most part I think we are. We have tons of SO's and since we started holding a state championship I think our clubs SO's have gotten a lot better. They really put a lot of effort into getting the rules right.

 

Now, I've traveled to clubs (North east) for bigger matches and I just try to roll with what ever guy working the stage says. I've seen rules enforced differently from one stage to the next at state championships. I've missed HOA a few times by less then one silly PE. So while I have fun, I tend to not take it seriously. If the rules were enforced more uniformly I'd probably shoot more IDPA. I think the game can be fun, and the accuracy requirement is much higher then it is in USPSA which is a good change of pace.

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Hah! Pretty sure my club is basically running under rules 20 years ago (mostly hyperbole). The MDs there don't really keep up, for instance we don't use the fault lines that we should nowadays. Gear rules are mostly followed. I've pretty much accepted that it's basically a time plus action pistol match. Which is fine, I use USPSA for my more serious shooting.

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The two IDPA clubs left in my area appear to follow the rulebook well enough but I think neither has too many certified SOs.  I say that because I've been called on PEs that weren't and have had them retracted after showing them in the book where it either says I can do what I did or doesn't say I can't do what I did.

 

I don't take IDPA seriously so I don't get butthurt about it all.

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43 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Ah hell this is IDPA.... IDPA don’t fly around here. Maybe one small match is all. 

I figured there was a good chance you missed that lol.

 

3 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

The two IDPA clubs left in my area appear to follow the rulebook well enough but I think neither has too many certified SOs.  I say that because I've been called on PEs that weren't and have had them retracted after showing them in the book where it either says I can do what I did or doesn't say I can't do what I did.

 

I don't take IDPA seriously so I don't get butthurt about it all.

 

There is a club like that near me. It's fun, and it's really small. I don't think the guys that run it have even read the last 2 or 3 revisions of the rules. The guys who shoot there know what they are getting, and really don't know what they are missing so it works out. 

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Our current MD has gone tribal, so we aren't shooting IDPA any more.  Never were, really; members are unwilling to pay dues to a sanctioning organization so the best we ever did was IDPA "style" (and Outlaw USPSA.)  

 

Next nearest club is the home range of the AC, so rules are followed.

Next next nearest is good, too.

Another in the region has been out of IDPA for a good while, plans to resume IDPA under new management in October.  The organizer is a nice guy but I am not certain of his grasp of rules and policies.  

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Our IDPA club takes rules very seriously and offers SO training periodically.

 

The opportunity for improvement is in stage design.  It is not as easy as it looks, and it is always a challenge.  

 

But almost everyone in the club are open to learning opportunities, and there are a few shooters that have a very high working knowledge of the rules and are always available to assist others.

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I would like the rules followed much more where I live and have spoken to the one MD and he wasn't receptive. This match is 20 minutes from my house. There is one that is an hour away that is better about the rules but still not 100%. But more than anything, it is stage design that keeps me from shooting any of them with any regularity. Hang me if you wish, but what a new MM finds interesting in a stage isn't the same as a MA. More than one match I've been to builds stages solely for the bottom skill wise, not even the middle. Secondly is the idea that the match is training, which is espoused at both matches. It clearly isn't as most of the people don't get better. The match is the test, not the training.

 

But yeah, made up divisions, no fault lines, illegal stages, illegal procedures, low skill challenges, thinking the match is training and "It's just a local" or "It's just for fun" or "You're not winning anything today" excuses.

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Rowdy, I'm a USPSA shooter, but I think my comments are germane. In my area we have two clubs. One is noted for following the rules, building high level stages, and attracting the area's A, M and GM talent. It is managed by A and Ms as well. The other club was noted for being lax with the rules or granting exceptions to the longtime shooters, building illegal and low quality stages, and attracting more C and D shooters. The first one is very very successful with sold out matches, and the second was withering and dying, until the owner sold the club. New M class blood is now trying to rebuild that club and make it more like the first one. I witnessed the same thing in the Phoenix area when I lived there as well.

 

My point being that newer shooters want to shoot with better shooters so they learn more, and better shooters want to play at well run, high value clubs clubs. Low value clubs are just that, and shooters will more often than not vote with their feet and wallets to play somewhere else. Full disclosure, I'm management of club one, and I'm pretty proud of what we have built.

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I live NE of Atlanta.  There are 5 clubs that have IDPA matches within 2.5 hours driving time from me.  Rule wise they cover the spectrum from following some rules to all rules.  I am an SOI past MD,  and always try and suggest the sometimes clubs up their game.  I have,  in the past when confronted with gross rule ignoring, thrown my hat on the ground, stomped on it, then left during match to protest.  But, guess what, the match continues.  So now I try (but don’t always succeed) asking myself which is better - shooting or pushing the lawn mower.  Since I only have one hobby, shootin usually wins out.  If only we could eliminate local rule variations.....   but,  that’s right up there with the tooth fairy.

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That is why I did not bother to renew my SO card.  I have worked under all the rule books and the last two or three are running together in my head.  

I just apply Rule Zero.  Ask the SO what he wants me to do and then do it the best I can.  Not the way it is supposed to be but see Howard B's conclusion.

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There is only one local club near me that does IDPA.  It's where I "discovered" IDPA after shooting a couple of "Action Pistol" matches at our little club in 2017 and wanting more competition.  The IDPA MD "doesn't believe in fault lines".  There were some other things that were "odd", but I didn't know any better.  I shot a couple of their monthly matches before discovering USPSA in 2018, and that was pretty much the end of my IDPA participation.  I came back once in 2019 to beef up my classification.  Got Master in two divisions that day, but when he told me "you can't use a GoPro because it's against club policy", I knew it was the last time I shot there.  Not to mention that there's zero local heat. The highest guy they have there was EX and he was trying to find ways to give me procedurals but the SO rejected his attempts.

 

It was anecdotal, really, how bad it was. Maybe it's just me, I don't know.  But I'm letting my IDPA membership expire this month.

Edited by nasty618
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  • 1 month later...

Rowdyb, I shoot IDPA at both Bandera and Texas Tactical. Good folks, fun time, but one club seems to be more loose with the rules and sets up stages in odd ways, holds "carry" style matches, and is more casual than competition focused. Been shooting for 5 years and looking to move up. I only shoot one tiered match a year and need to make more of an effort there.

Where do you shoot?

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  • 5 weeks later...

I went to an IDPA match in July to try to get back into the swing of competition shooting, and my club does follow the IDPA rules. It's the local discipline and Steel Challenge matches that go into outlaw territory as far as rule enforcement and gear checks go, at least until we get to Championship season. I'm okay with it, since I go to these matches for fun and to get actual use out of my firearms, but it is something to keep in mind if I ever want to get more serious about my competitive shooting.

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Another IDPA match, another mess with poorly run squads and lack of adherence to the rules.

 

The "SO" in my squad was the MD.  First stage of the day the guy rambles on for nearly 10 minutes to explain what we're supposed to do on the stage including a bunch of stuff that wasn't in the WSB (or whatever they call it) because "he didn't want anyone shooting themselves in the foot".  I had to correct him at least once on stuff he said that contradicted the WSB.  He left everyone thoroughly confused and we spent another 5 minutes sorting everything out.

 

Then, same stage, which features a loaded start with the gun on the ground; I had to call out to the "SO"/MD that his son (who was supposed to be shooting SSP) had laid his loaded pistol down cocked with the safety disengaged.  No DQ or penalty of any sort mind you.

 

We get to the next stage and I grabbed the WSB and briefed the squad like it should be done.  By the time he got there everyone knew what to do.

 

The rest of the day continued with blunder after blunder to the point that I won't go back to that club for IDPA matches.

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The local IDPA club in our area follows the current rules. 99% of the people never get any better. Lots of stages seem to be rinsed and repeated unless one of the club officers that takes the time to design interesting stages is in charge that day. Only one or two people know how to upload scores to Practiscore (resulting in several days to over a week of delays getting results at times). I show up when I can to support the club because there are lots of nice members. On a bad day or if there are a couple of PCC shooters I end up in 3rd place out of 20-23 people. Most of the USPSA shooters don't show up to shoot IDPA matches any more (when they did it made the match more interesting). The usual stages are much too easy for PCC shooters and some people that are mid-pack shooters switched to PCC so they can claim "high overall."

 

The club does have swinger targets, TX star, drop turner targets, clam shells, etc., but it is only about every third or fourth match that you see them used. I always help tear down.

 

I only attend when I can for the "social aspect" or getting some practice with a carry gun.

 

 

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  • 3 months later...
On 8/20/2020 at 11:04 AM, rowdyb said:

How well does your club follow the current rule book? And how do you feel about if they do/don't?

One of my IDPA Club's follows the rules, pretty strictly, we do coach new shooters at Level 1 matches, but other than that, the MD is pretty strict on following the rules and using the proper range commands.

The other club not really they are old school, doubt the guys running the matches and building stages have read the current rule book and they go by intent pf how the stages are built and to be shot, rules don't apply unless they want them to.

I have shot other matches and they are pretty sloppy on the rules and range commands, so when I shot sanctioned matches there, was not surprised the same cavalier attitude, wrong range commands and wrong application of the rules were used.

If you shoot IDPA, USPSA or any other sport, I think all clubs at all levels should follow the rules, use the proper range commands otherwise don't call it an IDPA or USPSA Match, clubs that do this half assed crap at their level 1 matches are teaching their SO's/RO's, it is ok to do crap however they feel like doing it and it carries over to bigger matches.

Had a guy in SSP starting with his CZ hammer cocked safety on, I told him that he needs to start hammer down for SSP or he should shoot ESP, I showed him how to safely lower the hammer at the safe area, he didn't like the idea, he shot the rest of the match doing it, no one else from his club knew that rule, i told him I didn't care but wanted him to know what the rules were, it wasn't my club and not sure what you do in that case anyway, it was a Level 1 IDPA match, he said all he shoots is Level 1 matches and would never shoot a sanctioned match, guess he has been doing it as long as he has been shooting.

I think clubs that follow the rules, teach the shooters the rules but don't look for reasons to hammer shooters on every little detail build better stages, have better matches and help grow the sport.

If you won't follow the rules just have outlaw matches, see how well that works, IMO/IME Outlaw matches have no rules, it depends on what the RM, RO, SO, MD thinks at that time and who the shooter is.

 

 

1 hour ago, jmacdesign said:

does IDPA or USPSA pay the clubs to use their berms/ shooting ranges for a sanctioned match?

No IDPA nor USPSA Pays clubs, unless they rent the range for a match.


IDPA clubs for certain matches pays IDPA, I don't think they pay anything for Level 1 matches or classifiers.

Every USPSA Match the club pays USPSA, if no classifier it is $1.50 per shooter, if there is a Classifier then $1.50 activity fee and $1.50 classifier fee, that is for every shooter that shoots the match, even if the shooter doesn't finish the match or is DQ'd.
 

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On 3/5/2021 at 11:38 AM, DirkD said:

Had a guy in SSP starting with his CZ hammer cocked safety on, I told him that he needs to start hammer down for SSP or he should shoot ESP, I showed him how to safely lower the hammer at the safe area, he didn't like the idea, he shot the rest of the match doing it, no one else from his club knew that rule, i told him I didn't care but wanted him to know what the rules were, it wasn't my club and not sure what you do in that case anyway, it was a Level 1 IDPA match, he said all he shoots is Level 1 matches and would never shoot a sanctioned match, guess he has been doing it as long as he has been shooting.

 

 

I'd give him one chance to decock.  If he refuses, I'll just change him to ESP on the tablet whether he likes it or not.

 

If he argues, DQ for violating Joyce's code of conduct.

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