Safe Area rules

[jeff40]

Please excuse me if this has already been asked and answered BUT...Is there actually a rule that mandates that a firearm is cleared and  locked open if  left unattended in the safety area? I looked, but couldn't find anything specific. If it IS a violation, what is the penalty? Thanks.

 

 

[Kraj]

There is not a rule that says it has to be locked open.

[NoSteel]

Some local ranges do mandate a slide / cylinder be open if left.  Was this mandated at a local match?

[Joe4d]

Dont think I would be leaving my guns laying around and walking off anyways. 

[aandabooks]

No rule for that.  You can leave a gun laying on the safe table.  When I ran my Czechmate I couldn't lock the slide open since I ran pins in place of a slide stop.

[Ming the Merciless]

1 hour ago, Joe4d said:

Dont think I would be leaving my guns laying around and walking off anyways. 

 

If I have to step outside the safe area to where my cart is parked 4 feet away, I'll leave the slide locked back or a chamber flag inserted.  Just to give other people that warm fuzzy feeling that my gun isn't going to jump up and start shooting.  If I have to go further than that, I bag it and put it in my cart.  Not that, that has any actual affect on making it harder to steal.

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, Joe4d said:

Dont think I would be leaving my guns laying around and walking off anyways. 

At major matches it’s fairly common to have safety areas and porta potties co located so you can leave the gun on the table. I see it regularly

[jeff40]

This was a local match. Pretty common practice to leave the gun at the safe table while using the outhouse or running out to the parking lot. I guess it's mostly a locally accepted etiquette to leave the gun visibly safe. No, I wouldn't leave it laying around at a larger match either. Thanks for your comments.

 

[rowdyb]

I have Crohn's disease, so I use the toilet frequently. I leave my gun unattended in the safe area all the time, local to national matches.

[Diver123]

At my range guns are regularly left at safe tables. I see the same bunch of shooters at the 6 matches a month I shoot. We are talking near 200 different people. No guns have gone missing. The only down side to leaving your gun at the safe table is picking it back up after sitting in the blazing sun. Thats not fun I assure you.

[nasty618]

I love local clubs that ignore the terms of their USPSA affiliation agreement and Rulebook and enforce their local BOC BOD policies.  Not to start a debate... just curious, how do they punish the offender and what rule do they enter in Practiscore?

[Rookie]

1 hour ago, nasty618 said:

I love local clubs that ignore the terms of their USPSA affiliation agreement and Rulebook and enforce their local BOC BOD policies.  Not to start a debate... just curious, how do they punish the offender and what rule do they enter in Practiscore?

Relative to the Safety Area issue discussed above, what USPSA rule was/is violated by the local policies?

[ima45dv8]

USPSA rules do not require guns in the safe area to be locked open. If the range additionally requires that, it's a problem.

[mreed911]

19 minutes ago, Rookie said:

Relative to the Safety Area issue discussed above, what USPSA rule was/is violated by the local policies?

3.3

[stick]

Am I mistaken?  isn't it true that USPSA rules supersede local rules for matches?  And...

People leave guns on the safe table all the time.  It's a common occurrence at matches to see guns left at the safe table.

 

[nasty618]

Section 3.3 covers everything you need to know about the rule applicability.  In theory. What it doesn't cover is that in reality, a club can and will do pretty much whatever they want without having a "written consent of the president".  And HQ will do pretty much nothing about that. Probably because the dues are being paid on time and that's really what they care about the most. 

Edited August 20, 2020 by nasty618

[mvmojo]

1 hour ago, nasty618 said:

Section 3.3 covers everything you need to know about the rule applicability.  In theory. What it doesn't cover is that in reality, a club can and will do pretty much whatever they want without having a "written consent of the president".  And HQ will do pretty much nothing about that. Probably because the dues are being paid on time and that's really what they care about the most. 

Bam!

[shred]

Plus in most places what's a match going to do if the range says "everything must be locked open in the safe area"?  Wave Section 3.3 at them? 

 

And then BOCs can say "we don't care, locked open or GTFO".   The more enlightened ones will say "your match, your insurance, your rules", but enlightened range BODs are about as common as reasonable HOAs.

 

 

 

[dwzuspsa]

At yesterdays match a new shooter left his holstered gun and belt on the safe table to use the porta poddy....he also left a loaded mag on the table and two more loaded mag in the carriers on the belt.  I referred to Section 2.4.1.1 - 2.4.1,4.   Nowhere in that area do the rules say leaving a firearms un-attended is OK.  I explained the idea behind the Safe Area and being his first match I issued a firm warning and advised him to bag the gun in the safe area and put it in his cart then do what ever his bladder needs to do..   read 3.3 and find it to be used for state and local ordinance.  Just a CRO's oppinion.

[dwzuspsa]

I also submitted the question to USPSA NROI...waitng for an answer and will post what they have to say here.

[Nathanb]

1 hour ago, dwzuspsa said:

At yesterdays match a new shooter left his holstered gun and belt on the safe table to use the porta poddy....he also left a loaded mag on the table and two more loaded mag in the carriers on the belt.  I referred to Section 2.4.1.1 - 2.4.1,4.   Nowhere in that area do the rules say leaving a firearms un-attended is OK.  I explained the idea behind the Safe Area and being his first match I issued a firm warning and advised him to bag the gun in the safe area and put it in his cart then do what ever his bladder needs to do..   read 3.3 and find it to be used for state and local ordinance.  Just a CRO's oppinion.

But nothing says it’s not ok either. Leaving ammo in the safe area is the problem. He had to handle it to leave it there and if the mags weren’t on the belt he should have been dqed 

[Sarge]

4 hours ago, Nathanb said:

But nothing says it’s not ok either. Leaving ammo in the safe area is the problem. He had to handle it to leave it there and if the mags weren’t on the belt he should have been dqed 

indeed. The gun can be left there in a holster or just laying on the table. Ammo can be in carriers on the belt. Ammo Can NOT be laying on the table. He had to handle it to place it there.

[mreed911]

 

On 8/23/2020 at 10:32 AM, dwzuspsa said:

At yesterdays match a new shooter left his holstered gun and belt on the safe table to use the porta poddy....he also left a loaded mag on the table and two more loaded mag in the carriers on the belt.  I referred to Section 2.4.1.1 - 2.4.1,4.   Nowhere in that area do the rules say leaving a firearms un-attended is OK.  I explained the idea behind the Safe Area and being his first match I issued a firm warning and advised him to bag the gun in the safe area and put it in his cart then do what ever his bladder needs to do..   read 3.3 and find it to be used for state and local ordinance.  Just a CRO's oppinion.

 

Not a personal attack, but coming from a CRO, this concerns me.  If there's not a rule AGAINST it, it's okay. 5.2.3 allows the belt to be removed between courses of fire and the safe area is the ONLY designated place to do that.

Leaving the loaded mag on the table outside of a belt pouch is a DQ, period.  Mags in carriers on the belt that are not handled individually are NOT DQ's.   There is no requirement he bag the gun and remove it from the safe area - it is not against the rules to leave it and/or the belt there (although might be considered rude if another competitor needed to use the safe area).

[dwzuspsa]

per Troy:

It's ok to leave your gun in the holster, even with magazines on the belt, in the safe area while you attend to other business.  As long as the magazines themselves are not handled, there are no safety violations.  An unattended firearm is just that, unattended.  It is not dangerous, nor can it do anything on its own.  The biggest threat to an unattended gun on a safe area table is the chance it gets stolen.

The rules say you can't handle ammunition, snap caps, dummy rounds, or empty cases in a safe area.  Having them in magazine carriers, or in your bag in a safety area is not a rules violation.

[mreed911]

Just now, dwzuspsa said:

per Troy:

It's ok to leave your gun in the holster, even with magazines on the belt, in the safe area while you attend to other business.  As long as the magazines themselves are not handled, there are no safety violations.  An unattended firearm is just that, unattended.  It is not dangerous, nor can it do anything on its own.  The biggest threat to an unattended gun on a safe area table is the chance it gets stolen.

The rules say you can't handle ammunition, snap caps, dummy rounds, or empty cases in a safe area.  Having them in magazine carriers, or in your bag in a safety area is not a rules violation.

One would hope that's his response, considering that's exactly what the rulebook says.