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Recent bullet orders


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44 minutes ago, Aircooled6racer said:

Hello, so if getting the lead is not the problem then what is causing all this long lead times on coated bullets? The coating material not being available which I don't think would be true. People buying way more than they need for the shooting season? Since primers are so hard to get right now I just don't seem to understand way bullets are so difficult to get from some suppliers? Maybe it is a manpower problem getting people to work? I think it is just weird coming from a manufacturing back ground. Thanks, Eric


I can’t speak to what is causing increased times at those companies. There’s probably a variety of issues, and they most likely vary company to company. It shouldn’t be lead though. It has been a available, with no real

change in lead times, and has caused no disruption in our manufacturing throughout the entirety of this ordeal. Could small companies that didn’t have solid supplier relationships prior to this be getting a cold shoulder? I guess it’s possible.  
 

Off the top of my head... Hi-Tek coating IS imported, so I could see that being a potential issue for any company that uses that particular product. 
 

But I agree. It doesn’t necessarily make sense in all cases. However, small companies with limited capacity, manpower, supply lines, and capital, facing an unprecedented (but temporary) demand for their product can create odd situations. 


 

 

 

 

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As an individual with manufacturing experience I also ask the question "why?"

 

Human nature being what it is if there was a specific problem in the supply chain, for example getting lead in bulk, the bullet industry would be plastering us with this information and the cost of the product would skyrocket due to the law of supply and demand. 

 

But this is not what is happening. The information we do get is somewhat vague but reading between the lines it points in the direction of capacity and/or cash flow. Again, human nature wants to deflect blame or cause to someone or something besides itself so you are not hearing the producers saying that we are well beyond capacity because even the dumbest businessmen knows that at some point in the future this situation will correct itself, business will then fall off and survival will become a real issue. Who wants to say that you Mr. Smith, cannot shoot this match season because I cannot fill your already paid for order? No one wants to do that and while shooters in general are brand loyal in the extreme it is a fragile alliance and we have long memories. 

 

What is hurting the industry reputation in my opinion is first they are requiring payment at the time of order placement then stumbling with delivery and second they are accepting new orders without having any kind of viable recovery plan to soften the blow. I understand fully that a small operation doesn't want to spend money willy-nilly just to have orders cancelled by an impatient customer. But again, a purchase that is paid for is in effect a contract and once the customer pays his obligation is complete, the supplier has to meet his obligation under the contract or expect to experience customer dissatisfaction. If a supplier says delivery in 10 weeks after receipt of payment and that 10 weeks turns into 20 weeks then the customer has a right to be unhappy regardless of the reason for the delay. 

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Demand is off the charts; with the spike in prices driving 'cheap' 9mm up over $800/case in some markets, I suspect many have crossed over to reloading their own ammo. Look at the lead times Dillon posted for some of their products. 6 months to get a press in some cases?!? 

 

...and with tens of millions of new gun owners all demanding ammo and surely millions of new reloaders all needing components, well, clearly there was a shock to the market...with no end in sight yet. 

 

 

 

LEAD TIMES FOR COMMON BACKORDERED PRODUCTS

  • Square Deal B - 24 weeks
  • RL550C - 3 weeks
  • XL750 - 16 weeks
  • Super1050 - 24 weeks
  • RL1100 - 24 weeks
  • CP2000 - 4 weeks
  • RT1500 Trimmer - 2 weeks
  • Casefeeder - 2 weeks
  • Mr. Bulletfeeder - 20 weeks
  • Pistol Dies - 24 weeks
  • Steel Rifle Dies - 24 weeks
  • Carbide Rifle Dies - 24 weeks
  • Powder Measures - 6 weeks
  • Quick Changes - 6 weeks
  • Conversion Kits - up to 12 weeks depending on caliber
  • Super Swage 600 - 2 weeks
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19 minutes ago, Terp said:

Demand is off the charts; with the spike in prices driving 'cheap' 9mm up over $800/case in some markets, I suspect many have crossed over to reloading their own ammo. Look at the lead times Dillon posted for some of their products. 6 months to get a press in some cases?!? 

 

...and with tens of millions of new gun owners all demanding ammo and surely millions of new reloaders all needing components, well, clearly there was a shock to the market...with no end in sight yet. 

 

 

 

LEAD TIMES FOR COMMON BACKORDERED PRODUCTS

  • Square Deal B - 24 weeks
  • RL550C - 3 weeks
  • XL750 - 16 weeks
  • Super1050 - 24 weeks
  • RL1100 - 24 weeks
  • CP2000 - 4 weeks
  • RT1500 Trimmer - 2 weeks
  • Casefeeder - 2 weeks
  • Mr. Bulletfeeder - 20 weeks
  • Pistol Dies - 24 weeks
  • Steel Rifle Dies - 24 weeks
  • Carbide Rifle Dies - 24 weeks
  • Powder Measures - 6 weeks
  • Quick Changes - 6 weeks
  • Conversion Kits - up to 12 weeks depending on caliber
  • Super Swage 600 - 2 weeks

So COVID is not their excuse anymore? Last time I talked to one of the reps, he said COVID was preventing timely delivery of products they source out to other manufacturers. Case in point is the availability of carbide .223 dies. Apparently, the manufacturer is based in Northern California which has been impacted by COVID.

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While the influx of new shooters explains in part the demand for commercial ammo, it really isn't a satisfactory explanation for the shortage of coated lead bullets used by a select number of shooters. Yes we are currently buying in part to lay up a store for a rainy day but newcomers to firearms ownership are not the traditional customers of bulk bullet sales or high end reloading equipment. 

 

Going from past experience, I like others made sure that I had ample supplies of powder and primers and even some rimfire ammo but in the past shortages, bullets were not the supply problem they are today. My bad for sure and it will not happen again. What I find frustrating is we the consumer have contingency plans in place for such a time as this but the industry did not see this clearly and has not even after a full year found a solution to the problems.

 

As an example of this, the last big shortage 2013-2016 saw for example increased availability of S&B primers and Vectan and Shooters Choice powders to help stem the tide. This was not new material but rather imports that had fallen by the wayside, brought back to life. 

 

I think the best thing we can do is try to resist the temptation to pay outrageous high prices for these items. Supply and demand laws will bring stability to the market once supply is able to meet demand. The demand is to an extent artificial and I'm part of the problem, I admit this. While not the best situation I would personally rather wait than pay inflated prices and feed the beast. I want to be there on the range just as much as anyone else but my life will not cease if I'm unable to compete at my preferred rate.

 

One of the reasons I have what reloading components I do have is because like others my rate of consumption was much lower in 2020 that it was in 2019. While I did acquire components in 2020 pre-demic, it was to bolster my existing supplies to extend beyond 2020. I did miscalculate the availability of bullets though. Because of my relative inactivity in 2020, I basically extended my supply for another year at minimal cost but like others I did this with a sense of pre-planning for this very situation.

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40 minutes ago, firewood said:

While the influx of new shooters explains in part the demand for commercial ammo, it really isn't a satisfactory explanation for the shortage of coated lead bullets used by a select number of shooters. Yes we are currently buying in part to lay up a store for a rainy day but newcomers to firearms ownership are not the traditional customers of bulk bullet sales or high end reloading equipment....

 

Coated are cheaper; new reloaders were lured in with thoughts of cheaper ammo; ergo, the new kids of the block are buying lots of coated (and every single other bullet they can get their hands on).  With a six-month delay on some reloading presses alone (expensive durable good), I am not surprised to find 20 week delays on cheaper, disposable reloading components as the kids scoop them up like there's no tomorrow.

 

As the price of ammo increases to absurd levels and as shelves are cleared out within minutes from the rush of people who lined up around the corners of major retailers in hopes of scoring a box or two upon opening, naturally people are going to gravitate toward reloading...so yes, were I to do a multivariate regression analysis, I would bet 10K SPP that there is a strong correlation between the price of store-bought ammo and the influx of new reloaders and their demand, ceteris paribus.

 

Therefore, I am going to strongly disagree with the assertion that my explanation is...inadequate. :)

 

 

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I am trying to get started in uspsa in Open division, I would settle for any in stock 124 jhp to feed my honcho but checking PD, Montana Gold, etc daily has not been fruitful. Any recommendations? 

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I’ve scored 2 cases of MG 124JHP in the past 3 months.  It took a lot of “refreshing” their webpage and my shopping cart page.  It’s like video poker. Hundreds of “out of stock” clickers to hit that jackpot “add to cart.”  Have your credit card ready. I’m not kidding. I “lost” one case because I had to reach for my wallet and pull out my card.  Someone beat me to it.

 

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53 minutes ago, Blockader said:

I am trying to get started in uspsa in Open division, I would settle for any in stock 124 jhp to feed my honcho but checking PD, Montana Gold, etc daily has not been fruitful. Any recommendations? 

Check out Precision Delta every Friday. I was able to order and receive the bullets (124 Gr JHP) within six days.

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1 hour ago, Blockader said:

I am trying to get started in uspsa in Open division, I would settle for any in stock 124 jhp to feed my honcho but checking PD, Montana Gold, etc daily has not been fruitful. Any recommendations? 


PD usually updates inventories on 124 jhps at least once a week. They ship immediately when ordered. 
 

There may or may not be some of the new V2 JHPs (Designed specifically  for open guns) available very soon too. ;) 

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Anyone received anything from Gallant recently? I had a subscription that I got billed for in December and I'm not into week 15 of their "10-12 week delay". Saw a few pages back folks saying they were still waiting on Gallant orders from 6 months back, so I'm not optimistic, just wondering if I should ask for a refund. Very frustrating that they kept existing subscriptions and didn't (A) plan ahead and make sure they could fulfill the ones they had committed to, or (B) notify customers with subscriptions that their planned order dates would be treated as if they were any other customer placing an order on that date.

 

I've already put a few other companies on my do-not-buy list because of they way they've handled the pandemic pricing and communications; Gallant may need to go onto that list... 

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3 hours ago, regor said:

Anyone received anything from Gallant recently? I had a subscription that I got billed for in December and I'm not into week 15 of their "10-12 week delay". Saw a few pages back folks saying they were still waiting on Gallant orders from 6 months back, so I'm not optimistic, just wondering if I should ask for a refund. Very frustrating that they kept existing subscriptions and didn't (A) plan ahead and make sure they could fulfill the ones they had committed to, or (B) notify customers with subscriptions that their planned order dates would be treated as if they were any other customer placing an order on that date.

 

I've already put a few other companies on my do-not-buy list because of they way they've handled the pandemic pricing and communications; Gallant may need to go onto that list... 

 

They sent me a refund when I asked for one. Promptly, even.

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On 3/29/2021 at 11:20 AM, Ssanders224 said:

 

They'll ship sooner than that. Today or tomorrow most likely.

They shipped yesterday...so, if I am lucky, they are here Saturday, still not bad....compared to the wait time others report, a week is just perfect!

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On 3/30/2021 at 9:59 AM, Intheshaw1 said:

All this bullet talk made me buy another case. So I'll do my part to add to the current wait times....

Ordered a case from BBI on Tuesday, UPS shows delivery for tomorrow. Can't beat that!

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Placed an order for some 145gr RN from Acme last night...got a shipping notification from them this morning, followed by a UPS email showing 4/6 for delivery.  

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Ordered a case of 115 and a case of 125 from DG on 3/27.

 

Both cases shipped on 3/29.

 

115's showed up yesterday 4/1, the 125's are still enroute. USPS says "In transit, arriving late".

 

They were well packed but about half the 500 count bags were broken open. I'm putting that on USPS as per usual. Bullets look great. Will test next week.

 

Wanted to try some .357's. Ordered 500 of each 115 and 125 from DG on 3/29. They said it would be a week for custom sizing. Just got shipping notice this AM, awesome! Haven't fired a single DG bullet yet, but couldn't be happier with CS, shipping, and prices.

Edited by iflyskyhigh
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On 4/1/2021 at 5:25 AM, RudyVey said:

They shipped yesterday...so, if I am lucky, they are here Saturday, still not bad....compared to the wait time others report, a week is just perfect!

One box arrived here today, the other is scheduled for tomorrow!! Yeah!!

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On 4/2/2021 at 9:48 AM, Eric802 said:

Placed an order for some 145gr RN from Acme last night...got a shipping notification from them this morning, followed by a UPS email showing 4/6 for delivery.  

The bullets showed up today, so 4 days from order to delivery. No worries with broken bags or loose bullets - they come packed in wooden boxes that were strapped together with plastic straps. Very sturdy. 

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