Classification Question

[horhey232]

So I have been really pushing to get out of D class Production so I made an effort to go to a Classifier Match. I had a few hot runs but a few dumpster fires. With that being said when USPSA reclassified me it bumped this solid B class run out of the most recent 8. I needed that B class run to be able to jump to C class for Production. That being said I am now the only D class shooter at an upcoming Level II match which from my understanding means I do not get anything for winning my class because I am the only one (someone told me there has to be a minimum of 5 shooters in the Class). This was the final update run before said Level II match so I am stuck.

 

Can I shoot as an U to be grouped with 4 other U shooters or what is the best course of action here?

[Balakay]

1 minute ago, horhey232 said:

So I have been really pushing to get out of D class Production so I made an effort to go to a Classifier Match. I had a few hot runs but a few dumpster fires. With that being said when USPSA reclassified me it bumped this solid B class run out of the most recent 8. I needed that B class run to be able to jump to C class for Production. That being said I am now the only D class shooter at an upcoming Level II match which from my understanding means I do not get anything for winning my class because I am the only one (someone told me there has to be a minimum of 5 shooters in the Class). This was the final update run before said Level II match so I am stuck.

 

Can I shoot as an U to be grouped with 4 other U shooters or what is the best course of action here?

You are not unclassified, you are a D. Can't shoot as a U.  Go shoot a good match and have fun.

[JohnStewart]

Agreed, you are still “D” class so that’s how you have to register.

 

In the meantime, you can look into why the “B” class score was dropped. It may be the automated rule that throws out any score significantly higher than your current class. If that is the case you can request that the USPSA team reconsider and use that score. It won’t help you for this upcoming Level II match, and it will likely take a few weeks to take effect, but I’ve seen them accept the higher score every time this comes up.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[horhey232]

Just now, JohnStewart said:

Agreed, you are still “D” class so that’s how you have to register.

 

In the meantime, you can look into why the “B” class score was dropped. It may be the automated rule that throws out any score significantly higher than your current class. If that is the case you can request that the USPSA team reconsider and use that score. It won’t help you for this upcoming Level II match, and it will likely take a few weeks to take effect, but I’ve seen them accept the higher score every time this comes up.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So according to USPSA my B class run was given the E status code which says it is no longer in the most recent 8 and since I was already a D class it wasn't technically dropping my classification.

 

Just kind of sucks that I drove 4 hours round trip to the classifier match only for it to hurt me rather than help me. 

[PatJones]

The best advice I ever got about classifiers was to stop caring about them. Shoot them like a regular stage, they're stage points you need to improve your finish in the match. When I started doing this, my classification started to climb.

--
Pat Jones
Firestone CO
USPSA #A79592

[rowdyb]

In Steel Challenge you keep your best run ever. In USPSA you've learned it is a rolling window. By going to a classifier match you shot enough classifiers (4,5,6??) to push something good out the window. It is the risk you run getting that many scores put on at one time as it does almost a total reset.

 

If you changed divisions to one you're unclassified in you could shoot at U, matches rarely offer a U trophy.

 

You're classified D class, and that's ok. If your goal was winning D class for this match then you will. But it is the type of goal that relies on other people to accomplish it. If you want to learn something from the match, instead set a goal that rests solely on what you do. For example "My goal at the next match is to shoot zero penalties." or "My goal at the next match is to go 1 for 1 on every piece of steel." or "My goal at the next match is to have only positive self talk." And so on.

[horhey232]

5 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

In Steel Challenge you keep your best run ever. In USPSA you've learned it is a rolling window. By going to a classifier match you shot enough classifiers (4,5,6??) to push something good out the window. It is the risk you run getting that many scores put on at one time as it does almost a total reset.

 

If you changed divisions to one you're unclassified in you could shoot at U, matches rarely offer a U trophy.

 

You're classified D class, and that's ok. If your goal was winning D class for this match then you will. But it is the type of goal that relies on other people to accomplish it. If you want to learn something from the match, instead set a goal that rests solely on what you do. For example "My goal at the next match is to shoot zero penalties." or "My goal at the next match is to go 1 for 1 on every piece of steel." or "My goal at the next match is to have only positive self talk." And so on.

Yea it was 6 classifiers and it pushed my B class run out and replaced it with two D's which really hit me. I usually don't let this bother me but it got me this time because I was looking forward to being a C class and completing against other C class Production shooters. Most matches I go to I am usually the only Production shooter so it is annoying because I have no one to compare with. My two friends that I shoot with a lot are Carry Optics so I wouldn't really call it a fair comparison. 

 

I am a C class Limited but I am a low C so I am pretty sure I will get rocked on at Level II especially shooting Limited Minor.

[Boomstick303]

I guess I don't understand the question.  You are trying to figure out what classification to shoot at your Level II match?  You cannot dictate this.  Your classification is your classification based on your classifiers per USPSA rules.  You have to shoot against who shows up at the Level II match.  No one can control who does or does not show up to any given match.

 

I am relatively new to USPSA.  I did pay attention to my classification at the beginning,  I no longer care.  People tend to put a lot of emphasis on how to increase their classifications quickly.  I find what does this accomplish?  You are not necessarily the shooter your classification record dictates you are.  Your Match scores are the true indicator of what kind of shooter you truly are.  Look at your average match scores.  I honestly shoot matches because running around with a gun and shooting stuff is a kick in the pants.   I don't need any other incentive.  

 

I have sensed stopped treating classifiers as classifiers.  I just treat them like any other stage like @PatJonesmentioned above.  Removing expectation from anything usually leads to better results.  Don't get me wrong.  I have goals to become a Master and possibly a GM one day, but I have to put in the work to get there.  If I do the work, those accolades will come naturally.  Everyone has to ask them self honestly, is my level of participation on par with the goals I am trying to achieve with anything in life.  Usually the answer is no.  Humans are capable of amazing things if they put in the work.  Humans are also amazing on being entitled and expect things to happen for them without putting in the work.

 

A funny story about classifiers.  I shoot PCC and Carry Optics.  I shoot PCC rather well in comparison to my Carry Optics gun.  After all it is shooting a rifle at a pistol match.  I quickly found myself as an A level shooter in PCC with little to no effort.  This was disastrous in regards to my Carry Optics classification, where USPSA rules push all of you other divisions to one classification lower than your highest classification in any division.  Meaning this made me a B class shooter in Carry optics when I was really a C level shooter.  It artificially raised my Carry Optics classification.  I realized that if I kept it up my PCC classification would completely outpace my true abilities as a Carry Optics shooter.  So I completely stopped caring about PCC classifiers.  I would just shoot them in a manner that would not hurt me in the match standings.  Once I stopped caring (removed expectations) the scores got even higher.  I started shooting Master and GM scores in PCC.  I have stopped shooting PCC so my Carry Optics abilities can keep up with my abilities with a PCC.  The reason I bring this up, is there is truth to how performance improves once you remove expectations.  

 

 

[George16]

26 minutes ago, horhey232 said:

Yea it was 6 classifiers and it pushed my B class run out and replaced it with two D's which really hit me. I usually don't let this bother me but it got me this time because I was looking forward to being a C class and completing against other C class Production shooters. Most matches I go to I am usually the only Production shooter so it is annoying because I have no one to compare with. My two friends that I shoot with a lot are Carry Optics so I wouldn't really call it a fair comparison. 

 

I am a C class Limited but I am a low C so I am pretty sure I will get rocked on at Level II especially shooting Limited Minor.

Wait, if you’re B class in Limited, then you should be a C in production since it’ll be one class lower than your highest classification.

[horhey232]

3 minutes ago, George16 said:

Wait, if you’re B class in Limited, then you should be a C in production since it’ll be one class lower than your highest classification.

I am C class in Limited.

 

I had a B class run on my classification record for Production but I shot a classifier match (6 classifiers) which bumped that run out of the running since it didn't change the overall classification.

[George16]

2 minutes ago, horhey232 said:

I am C class in Limited.

 

I had a B class run on my classification record for Production but I shot a classifier match (6 classifiers) which bumped that run out of the running since it didn't change the overall classification.

Oh I see. I though you’re B in Limited. Sorry.for the confusion.

[horhey232]

1 minute ago, George16 said:

Oh I see. I though you’re B in Limited. Sorry.for the confusion.

It's all good

[Hdiamond]

This may be an unpopular opinion, but the b class run at this point is probably an aberration if you’re going out there and shooting a bunch of D classifiers. 
 

Barring a major gun malfunction causing you to bomb multiple stages, the classifier match is probably more representative of your current skill level. Part of what makes D and C class hard for some folks to get out of in particular is consistency. You might connect on a good one here and there but that peak isn’t your normal. 
 

I still tell people that D class means you’re probably a better shooter than 80% of people who shoot a gun more than a couple times a year. You’re just comparing yourself to a standard that’s set by the top 1%. 
 

At this level II own the fact that you’re D. Don’t try some shady stuff to be with the U shooters because that honestly doesn’t mean jack. Some of those U shooters could be a GM in another division who just switched and don’t have enough classifiers. They could be someone at their 3rd or 4th match. You will place where you place. Go out there and shoot the stages to your abilities and take copious mental notes. Have someone on your squad video you so you can go back and find areas to work on. I am sure that between the stage scores and video you will find stuff to work on. 
 

shoot enough matches where they run 1 or 2 classifiers as part of a bigger match and the classification jump will come with the skill and consistency improvement. 

[horhey232]

15 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

I guess I don't understand the question.  You are trying to figure out what classification to shoot at your Level II match?  You cannot dictate this.  Your classification is your classification based on your classifiers per USPSA rules.  You have to shoot against who shows up at the Level II match.  No one can control who does or does not show up to any given match.

 

I am relatively new to USPSA.  I did pay attention to my classification at the beginning,  I no longer care.  People tend to put a lot of emphasis on how to increase their classifications quickly.  I find what does this accomplish?  You are not necessarily the shooter your classification record dictates you are.  Your Match scores are the true indicator of what kind of shooter you truly are.  Look at your average match scores.  I honestly shoot matches because running around with a gun and shooting stuff is a kick in the pants.   I don't need any other incentive.  

 

I have sensed stopped treating classifiers as classifiers.  I just treat them like any other stage like @PatJonesmentioned above.  Removing expectation from anything usually leads to better results.  Don't get me wrong.  I have goals to become a Master and possibly a GM one day, but I have to put in the work to get there.  If I do the work, those accolades will come naturally.  Everyone has to ask them self honestly, is my level of participation on par with the goals I am trying to achieve with anything in life.  Usually the answer is no.  Humans are capable of amazing things if they put in the work.  Humans are also amazing on being entitled and expect things to happen for them without putting in the work.

 

A funny story about classifiers.  I shoot PCC and Carry Optics.  I shoot PCC rather well in comparison to my Carry Optics gun.  After all it is shooting a rifle at a pistol match.  I quickly found myself as an A level shooter in PCC with little to no effort.  This was disastrous in regards to my Carry Optics classification, where USPSA rules push all of you other divisions to one classification lower than your highest classification in any division.  Meaning this made me a B class shooter in Carry optics when I was really a C level shooter.  It artificially raised my Carry Optics classification.  I realized that if I kept it up my PCC classification would completely outpace my true abilities as a Carry Optics shooter.  So I completely stopped caring about PCC classifiers.  I would just shoot them in a manner that would not hurt me in the match standings.  Once I stopped caring (removed expectations) the scores got even higher.  I started shooting Master and GM scores in PCC.  I have stopped shooting PCC so my Carry Optics abilities can keep up with my abilities with a PCC.  The reason I bring this up, is there is truth to how performance improves once you remove expectations.  

 

 

I was just putting a lot of emphasis on Classifiers for a Level II match that is coming up to compare myself against other C class Production shooters. I mean at the end of the day I still can as a D class shooter. I think what got me was the fact that I got my hopes up about finally making C class when in fact the sheer number of classifiers I shot bumped a decent B class run out of the calculation which would have brought me up to C.

 

I have noticed that the classifiers I treat as a normal stage have gone better than ones that I stress too much about. 

 

So in reference to my original question I couldn't find anything in the rules about this but I was told that at Level II+ matches if there are not more than 5 shooters in a class of a division there is no class winner for that. I wanted to try to get a Production C win. I am now the only D class Production shooter. There are 4 U shooters but I can not shoot unclassified since I am classified. 

[MemphisMechanic]

Here’s something worth considering:

 

You’re focused on the negative. Stop that.

 

Go to the match and shoot it as best you can. There’s absolutely no reason you can’t pit yourself against the Cs and do your best to finish in the upper portion of that pack just because you have a D next to your name. Make this a positive; it’s a chance to prove the classification system wrong.

 

If you do, great. Great, you know the classification system was wrong. It’s motviation to go home and dryfire hard, and get your classification scores up.

 

If you don’t? Great. The classification system was right and you know that B wasn’t an accurate representation of your skill. It’s motivation to go home and dryfire and get your classifier scores up.

 

 
 

(EDIT: How to shoot B class clasifiers consistently? Dryfire your draw and reload like crazy. You don’t have to shoot horribly fast to land a C or B classifier if your draw and load are quick. You have to stop taking so long to accomplish those tasks, and it’ll leave you plenty of time to hang good hits on paper.)

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by MemphisMechanic

[Boomstick303]

1 minute ago, horhey232 said:

I was told that at Level II+ matches if there are not more than 5 shooters in a class of a division there is no class winner for that. 

 

I believe Match Directors dictate that.  I could be wrong.  I have never read what dictates what classifications are or are not recognized for any level of match.  

 

The fact that you are the only D class shooter should not affect your goals.  Make your goal to beat every U class shooter and place in the top 3 or 5 of C class shooters.  Hell even beat every C class shooter if you think your abilities are up to the challenge.  Essentially everything @MemphisMechanicjust said.

 

Typically there is at least on shooter in each classification that is way better than their classification for a given division for various reasons. 

 

[SGT_Schultz]

8 minutes ago, horhey232 said:

I was just putting a lot of emphasis on Classifiers for a Level II match that is coming up to compare myself against other C class Production shooters. I mean at the end of the day I still can as a D class shooter. I think what got me was the fact that I got my hopes up about finally making C class when in fact the sheer number of classifiers I shot bumped a decent B class run out of the calculation which would have brought me up to C.

 

I have noticed that the classifiers I treat as a normal stage have gone better than ones that I stress too much about. 

 

So in reference to my original question I couldn't find anything in the rules about this but I was told that at Level II+ matches if there are not more than 5 shooters in a class of a division there is no class winner for that. I wanted to try to get a Production C win. I am now the only D class Production shooter. There are 4 U shooters but I can not shoot unclassified since I am classified. 

Quite honestly Im gonna echo the advice to stop caring about your classification and to worry even less about winning production c class.  It's like taking your sister to the prom.

 

You can compare yourself to any subset of production shooters from the big match on a spreadsheet or in PS itself after the match.

[Hdiamond]

7 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

I believe Match Directors dictate that.  I could be wrong.  I have never read what dictates what classifications are or are not recognized for any level of match.  

 

The fact that you are the only D class shooter should not affect your goals.  Make your goal to beat every U class shooter and place in the top 3 or 5 of C class shooters.  Hell even beat every C class shooter if you think your abilities are up to the challenge.  Essentially everything @MemphisMechanicjust said.

 

Typically there is at least on shooter in each classification that is way better than their classification for a given division for various reasons. 

 

At level II it is recommended, not mandatory, that you recognize classes within a division with at least 5 competitors in that class/division combination. Level III requires 10 and is mandatory.  See appendix A2. 

[horhey232]

9 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Here’s something worth considering:

 

You’re focused on the negative. Stop that.

 

Go to the match and shoot it as best you can. There’s absolutely no reason you can’t pit yourself against the Cs and do your best to finish in the upper portion of that pack just because you have a D next to your name. Make this a positive; it’s a chance to prove the classification system wrong.

 

If you do, great. Great, you know the classification system was wrong. It’s motviation to go home and dryfire hard, and get your classification scores up.

 

If you don’t? Great. The classification system was right and you know that B wasn’t an accurate representation of your skill. It’s motivation to go home and dryfire and get your classifier scores up.

 

 
 

(EDIT: How to shoot B class clasifiers consistently? Dryfire your draw and reload like crazy. You don’t have to shoot horribly fast to land a C or B classifier if your draw and load are quick. You have to stop taking so long to accomplish those tasks, and it’ll leave you plenty of time to hang good hits on paper.)

 

I usually am a pretty positive person and it usually doesn't get to me but I hyped myself up and the effort I put in feels like it bit me in the ass.

 

Either way I know I will live to shoot another day and I will get better.

 

I am dry firing more and more as 9mm ammo has now exceeded $0.50 a shot which is outrageous 

[lstange]

If there are three GMs in your division at the Level II match and they place at 90% of the winner or above, you can get a classification bump. To get to C, you'll need to place at 45% of the winner or higher.

[Boomstick303]

Just now, lstange said:

If there are three GMs in your division at the Level II match and they place at 90% of the winner or above, you can get a classification bump. To get to C, you'll need to place at 45% of the winner or higher.

 

This happens at Level II matches?

[lstange]

Yes, Level II or above.

[IVC]

1 hour ago, horhey232 said:

I wanted to try to get a Production C win. I am now the only D class Production shooter. There are 4 U shooters but I can not shoot unclassified since I am classified. 

You can still get a Production C win and beat all the other C shooters. The match might not recognize you as such, but all the C shooters certainly will... 

 

Classes as "competition brackets" are silly, particularly at the lower levels where it's a matter of how your classifiers are ordered and how often you shoot them. Classes are also particularly silly at the higher levels where you're a good shooter competing against guys who are also good shooters and there is nothing inherently wrong with you that would handicap your performance. In fact, it appears that classes as competition brackets are pretty silly overall...

 

Use your class as a tracker of your own progress, to see how well you're doing and improving. Use your skill to beat all the guys who are below your skill level or who are inconsistent due to trying too hard/fast. You can have a great goal of beating all C level shooters at your upcoming match. Work on that and post back how you did!

[IVC]

46 minutes ago, horhey232 said:

I usually am a pretty positive person and it usually doesn't get to me but I hyped myself up and the effort I put in feels like it bit me in the ass.

It didn't. Win the C class as a D shooter and get even more bragging rights...

 

In reality, your most likely concern after the match will be that you tried too hard and ended up performing below your level, not that you went as a D. If you think you have the skill to win the C class and you made it your goal (it's a nice and measurable goal), make sure you perform at your peak level and not "give up" the victory to someone else because you were trying to go faster than you could. If you shot well and didn't end up on top of C, that's good too - it's your homework for the next match. 

[cjmill87]

36 minutes ago, lstange said:

If there are three GMs in your division at the Level II match and they place at 90% of the winner or above, you can get a classification bump. To get to C, you'll need to place at 45% of the winner or higher.

Maybe a silly question but which % does this relate to, the actual % or the % possible?  Recent example of Lvl II below