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23 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

If my eyes were better maybe Limited.

 

For me, for sure Limited.  Truth be told I shot much better in Limited than I do now in Open.  I don't know if that would be the case now, but I liked Limited.  Shooting was so much more intuitive.

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1 minute ago, zzt said:

 

For me, for sure Limited.  Truth be told I shot much better in Limited than I do now in Open.  I don't know if that would be the case now, but I liked Limited.  Shooting was so much more intuitive.

 

Less issues with Limited guns.  At least it seems that way. 

 

I also like the fact that so many manufactures are making optic ready guns.  This will only help increase those CO numbers over the next couple of years.

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Two local matches recently near me:

O – 4

CO – 11

L – 18

P – 9

SS – 2

PCC – 1

Only 21 showed up at this one, usually more CO and few more Open:

O – 1

CO – 4

L – 6

P – 6

SS – 2

PCC – 2

 

Area 3 USPSA

O – 67

CO – 85

L – 78

P – 55

SS – 14

PCC – 31

Comments I've heard from CO shooters tends to indicate it is the magazine capacity that draws them more than the dot (many used to be in Prod). Several shoot Lim Minor because they like the mag capacity and don't care about minor scoring.

 

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I fall into the older guy with crappy vision category, I carry a glock 19 with a dot. It seems reasonable to compete with my G34.5 mos.

I would be happy if a dot was allowed in all of the divisions. Running a single stack or revolver with a dot would be fun.

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3 hours ago, rowdyb said:

I just looked at upcoming area 4 as it's the area I live in, but CO sure looks healthy. 

 

Screenshot_20200811-165244_Chrome.jpg

I’d say that Revolver also looks healthy in your area (relatively speaking,  not making a joke).

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16 hours ago, shred said:

Easy as in few to no reloads, no draw, no turn-n-draw, no one-handed shooting, no really difficult shots, no need to reload ammo or pick brass and so on,  Not easy as in 'easy to win Nationals'.  It's as easy for everyone else too.

 

That 'easy' is attractive not only to newer shooters but experienced shooters that think they could win if it wasn't for those pesky reloads, or SHO shots, iron sights or meddling kids, however true that may not be.  CO has some of that due to dot, hicap and 9mm.

 

Nothing wrong with any of that but to say "CO is a huge success" may not be the entire point.  It might be a success not because a big chunk of USPSA members want to shoot CO pistols as-such but because other divisions are further away from what that chunk wants.

 


I agree that the lack of reloading is a big attractant to the division. As is the stable platform for shooting using a shouldered carbine. I disagree on the lack of difficult shots. Very low ports, tight ports, hard left leans and a multitude of other "PCC hater" positions do introduce other challenges that are not challenging for pistols. The longer shots and tight partials clearly aren't as hard as for pistol but there are still challenges. 

I still pick up brass though. I just wish I didn't have to trim down so many 9 mm long rounds with red dykem on them. 

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I switched form Prod to CO about a year and a couple months ago. I quickly made M in CO. Since then, I've shot only two matches back in Prod and had fun but no desire to go back. The way you can attack a stage is so much different in CO. Im my area, we are seeing quite the swing from Prod to CO, with CO becoming the healthiest division.

 

P.S., I fall into the young and mobile crowd.

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I saw the biggest jump in numbers after the 140mm mag allowance. 

 

I think folks like a dot. They like cheap ammo. They like a gun that works and doesn’t require a lot of tinkering to stay running. They like to go through a stage more freely and less confined by reloads. 

 

CO just has a LOT of appeal to it. 

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I’m a little curious what would happen to participation and scores if the slide mounted optic was optional rather than mandatory... I know, the name would be even stupider. At times it feels like the dot is a deterrent.


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Outside US (ipsc) big deterrent is the micro reddot where its quite expensive and virtually no after market support. They cost at least US$600 in my neck of woods and when it goes south you are virtually on your own which means you buy another one. The SRO here is US$1,300+. 
Far different in your pond. 

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Yeah, unfortunately BoyGlock is absolutely right...

Production optics really does interest me, but it's the dot that keeps me from trying. 

Crazy high prices for a quality red dot and the fact that you have to buy two to remain in the game...

(I live in the Netherlands)

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The last time our club hosted our state match was in 2016.  We are hosting it again next month.  Attached are the division breakdowns for the matches.  Interesting to see the Prod to CO shift in 4 years.

2016 state match.PNG

2020 state match.PNG

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Here’s how the number stack up for my section championship happening in 4 weeks, Production is still the largest in our area since we live in Cali. I started with Carry Optics last year switching from PCC, honestly can’t see myself going back.

 

F9643EFE-C6ED-4BBD-B09D-BDF93E4241FB.thumb.jpeg.7be5b930d8611da8a0adac1760ea1f06.jpeg

5C4777FD-67C1-4125-8ADF-BBFD1CCA608B.thumb.jpeg.0ca4ecac4a8a8893bc8bdd912dc7e909.jpeg

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Ditching the 10 round rule was the best thing that could happen to CO.  The next best thing would be to ditch the hammer down start.  CO is a weird hybrid of production and limited.  I'd much rather see it be aligned with limited rules, just limited with CO as opposed to half-production and half-limited with CO.

 

CO has become the biggest division in the matches I run.

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32 minutes ago, IVC said:

We already have "Limited with Optics" - it's called Open. 

 

Nah, I don't think so, but there are so many different perspectives, the lines have to be drawn somewhere.  The reason I want "my version" of CO is that I shoot my carry gun, and I carry it cocked and locked.  I don't want to shoot in competition differently from how I'd shoot in the real world.  But, maybe that means I should go shoot IDPA!  So, my options are to shoot in open with an extreme disadvantage, shoot in CO and violate my principles, or convert to DA/SA lifestyle with my carry gun.  The last option seems kinda reasonable, actually.

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Went to check this for our section championship. We have the exact same # of shooters in CO, Prod, and Limited. 
 

CO has gotten very big here in MN the last 2 years but really exploded this year. A lot of good production shooters in the state have switched over. 

# of shooters in CO at our section match 
2018 - 22

2019 - 26

2020 - 44

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Prod is dwindling in numbers.  People like to fill their mags to capacity.  People like shooting minor. 

 

Personally I think a balanced approach going forward is 15-round for both Prod and CO.  Else Prod may just become L10 in 5 years, only for new shooter's who have not got a chance to put a dot on.

 

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That's why they should get rid of the dot requirement in CO and count up how many people want to do that with irons over Limited Minor...  Simple change, doesn't affect competition a bit, gives more flexibility.

 

 

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On 8/14/2020 at 11:58 AM, Overscore said:

 

Nah, I don't think so, but there are so many different perspectives, the lines have to be drawn somewhere.  The reason I want "my version" of CO is that I shoot my carry gun, and I carry it cocked and locked.  I don't want to shoot in competition differently from how I'd shoot in the real world.  But, maybe that means I should go shoot IDPA!  So, my options are to shoot in open with an extreme disadvantage, shoot in CO and violate my principles, or convert to DA/SA lifestyle with my carry gun.  The last option seems kinda reasonable, actually.

it's a sport, not real life. If you care more about 'real life', then you won't care that you're at a disadvantage to open shooters in a sport. If you care more about the sport, then you won't care that it's not identical to real life.

 

I'd love to change the rules of hockey to fit my particular preferences and skills, but I'm not going to get anywhere with that either, lol.

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34 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

it's a sport, not real life. If you care more about 'real life', then you won't care that you're at a disadvantage to open shooters in a sport. If you care more about the sport, then you won't care that it's not identical to real life.

 

I'd love to change the rules of hockey to fit my particular preferences and skills, but I'm not going to get anywhere with that either, lol.

 

I have the ability to care about more than one thing.

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I also shot the first CO Nats at PASA Park in 2016. I live an hour from the range and shoot about every match they have there from Area 5, Production Nats, to the Single Stack Classic (when they still hosted all these matches), so I thought why not try CO Nats?  I set up a Springfield XDm 5.25" (PRP trigger) with a Burris FastFire 3 and a Springer mount.  Why? Because I already had an XDm and the FF3 and that combination met the weight factor at that time, and all I needed to do was order a Springer mount.  I'd been shooting Production with a CZ Accu Shadow for some years, and thought I'd give CO a try. Holy crap did I struggle finding the red dot!!  But it was a lot of fun.  I had time to watch the super squad for a few stages (with Max, TGO, Nils, Shane, and if memory serves me right I think Julie Golob and Michelle Viscuzi were also on that squad).  And they just blazed it!  Really fun to watch. But it got me hooked and I've been mostly shooting CO since.  I'm now shooting the Sig X5 Legion with a GGI curved trigger, Springer tungsten guide rod and base pads, and a DPP 7.5 moa red dot.

 

What I find most interesting is many shooters in my local area that initially ripped on CO when it first came out and talked about what an abomination to USPSA it was, are now shooting CO.

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