Is lack of ammo starting to hurt participation?

[ChuckS]

OK, folks, let's keep this thread on the subject of ammo availability and match attendance. Thanks!

[Zincwarrior]

3 hours ago, Intheshaw1 said:

I'm really thinking the window of transmission is small through my own experience. Two relatives got it, both from work and both while required to wear masks. For the latest case, we had a family dinner with on a Friday after they were presumably exposed at work the day before and none of us got it. They then went to another dinner Saturday night where nearly everyone got it and then on Tuesday found out about the coworker testing positive so they went into quarantine and both ended up testing positive when the results came in on the following Thursday which pretty much coincided with the symptoms. The only symptoms were a loss of smell and taste.

Edited per mod comment above. Apologies as I don't know how to delete.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Zincwarrior

[Sarge]

4 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

OK, folks, let's keep this thread on the subject of ammo availability and match attendance. Thanks!

3 minutes later somebody posts about COVID !

  our local attendance dropped off a little near the end of the season. Actually some die hard regulars just decided to wrap the season up early because with cancellations etc they just couldn’t get into a groove. I figure they didn’t want to waste primers on

an already lost season.

  I look for 2021 to hit newer shooters the hardest because they either buy ammo or tried to start reloading way too late. If COVID fears subside and the season starts “normally” I think the die hard regulars will show up

[motosapiens]

15 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

OK, folks, let's keep this thread on the subject of ammo availability and match attendance. Thanks!

to some extent I think the ammo shortage and covid are almost the same thing, or at least very closely related. should we have a separate thread for covid as it pertains to shooting outdoor matches? Or is that topic being censored by enos as well as facebook? Serious question because so far all I've been able to collect is anecdotal data locally, and I'd be very curious to know if other areas are having similar experiences, or if there are particular things to watch out for.

Edited December 1, 2020 by motosapiens

[Intheshaw1]

I think people need to see things normalize before shooting picks back up. I know a lot of guys who have primers and ammo but don't want to shoot it all up as they think the supply issues will continue far into 2021 and possibly even 2022. It's not so much a fear of covid as a fear of a lack of supply going forward.

[ima45dv8]

24 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

to some extent I think the ammo shortage and covid are almost the same thing, or at least very closely related. should we have a separate thread for covid as it pertains to shooting outdoor matches? Or is that topic being censored by enos as well as facebook? Serious question because so far all I've been able to collect is anecdotal data locally, and I'd be very curious to know if other areas are having similar experiences, or if there are particular things to watch out for.

Moto,

I wouldn't mind some responsible, adult discussion about the impact COVID has had/is having on our sport, but the very real fact is, some people here cannot stop devolving into political discussion, or making demeaning comments that anyone worried about the virus are silly little children.

 

Back in ~January I decided to shoot the GA State match this year. After a bad crash in 2017 I finally started thinking it was doable. I even bought one of Ben's dryfire books and was pleased with the help it provided. Just for what it did in terms of correcting my grip was worth the cost.

 

However, I haven't been to ANY matches this year because of my status as a high-risk individual. I know most shooters (including myself) don't personally know anyone who has contracted the virus, much less died from it, and I don't want to be the one who changes that in my part of this small community. 

[TonytheTiger]

13 minutes ago, ima45dv8 said:

 I know most shooters (including myself) don't personally know anyone who has contracted the virus, much less died from it, and I don't want to be the one who changes that in my part of this small community. 

So it's safe to say your opinion of the virus is based on hearsay? Because in my neck of the woods about 50% of people have tested positive. No joke, I'm nearly amish and barely leave the house in the best of times and I still personally know over 60 people that have had it. They were all very underwhelmed by their plague experience.

[ima45dv8]

1 minute ago, TonytheTiger said:

So it's safe to say your opinion of the virus is based on hearsay?

I'm not sure what you're asking. If you mean that I haven't heard of anyone in the local shooting scene contracting it, I can only go by the various shooters I communicate with electronically. Or did you mean my concerns about the impact it might have on me if I get it?

[TonytheTiger]

I'm asking if you've stood face to face with someone in your circle of family, close friends or work acquaintances while they admitted to currently having it or having recently gotten over it. Then asked them for all the details. Because I have. 

I've asked: 

Most of my wife's family

Some of my distant family

Coworkers

Customers

Gun shop guy

Shooters at matches

93 year old grandma

Neighbors

Hired hand at the farm down the road

Bank teller

Mechanic

Many of the subcontractors I work with

Chiropractor, and by extension, dozens of his customers

Several hospital employees that have been laid off at the same time local news reports full hospital beds

 

That's just who I thought of while typing. I could make a longer list if you like. I'm doing a carpentry job in a hair salon right now, not 5 minutes ago the salon owner admitted to having it then 7 of 10 customers did as well.

It's like my Grandma said. "I thought this was political from the get go. Now that it's come and gone I know for a fact it's just politics"

Then something about when you're 93 years old the next time you get sick is likely to be your last. Doesn't really matter what its called.

Her words, not mine. Sounds harsh but that's reality.

Edited December 1, 2020 by TonytheTiger

[motosapiens]

51 minutes ago, ima45dv8 said:

Moto,

I wouldn't mind some responsible, adult discussion about the impact COVID has had/is having on our sport, but the very real fact is, some people here cannot stop devolving into political discussion, or making demeaning comments that anyone worried about the virus are silly little children.

 

Back in ~January I decided to shoot the GA State match this year. After a bad crash in 2017 I finally started thinking it was doable. I even bought one of Ben's dryfire books and was pleased with the help it provided. Just for what it did in terms of correcting my grip was worth the cost.

 

However, I haven't been to ANY matches this year because of my status as a high-risk individual. I know most shooters (including myself) don't personally know anyone who has contracted the virus, much less died from it, and I don't want to be the one who changes that in my part of this small community. 

 

you make some reasonable points. It is somewhat challenging to discuss covid without getting at least peripherally into the political response. Regarding your last paragraph tho, my experience is very different. I know a couple dozen people who've had covid (2 LE officers from work, the rest local shooters and their families). As far as I can tell, all those shooters got the virus from close friends or family (i.e. not at a match), many of them unwittingly came to matches just before they showed symptoms, or even started feeling it a bit at a match, and none of them that I am aware of gave it to anyone else at a match. That makes me feel pretty ok about continuing to shoot matches, but of course it's only an anecdote. If I were a higher-risk individual, I might see it differently. I certainly wouldn't make fun of anyone for choosing to be more cautious, as long as they don't try to force me to act the same.

fwiw, none of the people I know that had covid were in nursing homes, or diabetic, or obese, or even over 70, so it's a pretty low-risk group. A few of us are in the late 50's but still had the normal pretty mild symptoms.

[TonytheTiger]

1 minute ago, motosapiens said:

I certainly wouldn't make fun of anyone for choosing to be more cautious, as long as they don't try to force me to act the same.
 

This is the main issue with the whole thing.

[motosapiens]

Note that my interest in this topic is not only for my own selfish desire to shoot. I'm also on the BOD at our club, so we've had ongoing discussions as to how to approach the sanctioned matches. As a result I am always on the lookout for evidence that covid *might* be transmitted under the conditions we typically see at a local match, and so far I'm not seeing such evidence. 

 

I have seen evidence that it can be transmitted to your housemates in the airbnb you rent at nationals, or to your kid that you shoot with regularly but also visit regularly at home, but it doesn't seem to be happening at the range even tho literally zero people wear masks and we still have to get close to those damn dirty pcc shooters to pick up their shots with the timer...

[shred]

Except for the one guy that almost certainly got it at the range, in a match or match-type situation (talking to people under a range shade cover), I don't know anyone that's picked it up at a match, but with symptoms a week to 10 days after infection and infectious for 2 days prior to symptoms, it's not easy to tell where you got it.  That said, there were a couple hundred people under the roof at Frostproof talking and drinking a few months ago.  Did anyone get it there?  I haven't heard of any.

 

In any case things are going to change now that vaccines are here.  The media is making a lot of noise about how hard they are to make and distribute and agonizing about who gets them when, but that's just the media making noise.  There's no place in the US that's out of reach of dry-ice transport, let alone ice-cream trucks, so by mid 2021 anyone in the US that wants the shots will be able to get them and most of the high-risk groups should already have them.  You'll feel down for a day and done.

 

I think ammo and primers are more likely to be an issue for attendance through 2021.  That panic seems less likely to break by then and I suspect many people with stock will be reluctant to use it up not-knowing when they can replace it.

[motosapiens]

10 minutes ago, shred said:

I think ammo and primers are more likely to be an issue for attendance through 2021.  That panic seems less likely to break by then and I suspect many people with stock will be reluctant to use it up not-knowing when they can replace it.

 

it's affecting my practice, but not my match attendance until at least mid summer.

[MemphisMechanic]

1 hour ago, TonytheTiger said:

 

It's like my Grandma said. "I thought this was political from the get go. Now that it's come and gone I know for a fact it's just politics"

 

I don’t prescribe to the hyper-cautious group who are afraid to leave their homes. My wife and I regularly hit the gym (masks required...) and I am at work in a repair shop daily, just like normal.

 

A good friend of mine died from Covid at 35 leaving a highschool aged son behind. He was the textbook “flu. nope, I can’t breathe. ICU. Induced coma on a respirator. Never recovered” type of case we saw on the news nonstop. He passed away very very early on, one of the countries first casualties.

 

My wife’s good friend over in Virignia was a 46 year old mother of two. Same thing. Sick. Ventilator. Dead.

 

Just because you don’t know any of the fraction of a percent who catch it badly, doesn’t mean it’s purely fake news.

 

On the other hand I know at least eight people who’ve gotten the ‘minor cold’ version of it, and got better in a few days. Probably more like twenty minor cases among my friends and family. I think most of us can say that much, these days.

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by MemphisMechanic

[TonytheTiger]

@MemphisMechanic you'll note I never said it was harmless or that people aren't entitled to take the precautions they deem necessary. But straight from the mouths of everyone I know that's had it, unanimously, is that the damage the hysteria is causing is far and away worse than the damage the virus alone is causing. 

I don't know a single person that's died from it, but admit those people are out there. I do however know 3 people that committed suicide because of lockdowns as well as multiple people that have lost everything due to unconstitutional regulations. We are all going to die when our time comes, but living penniless in the meantime to avoid death is nonsense.

[Intheshaw1]

@TonytheTiger the lockdowns came too early and now when things are getting worse people are sick of being locked down and are mostly ignoring the orders. Most the people I know who have had it said minor symptoms, but 2 guys I know have severe symptoms and one is in an induced coma. Like said before, it's not that it's nothing but everything has a chance to kill you and your time will come when it comes.

 

I think the economic impact is going to be far worse in 2021 as the government support dried up and people don't have that crutch anymore. This will likely impact the shooting sports and ammo purchases as well as people cut back on their spending. The vaccine is likely the be of smaller impact that most people think as I doubt most of the country will get it since most don't get a flu shot. The SARs infections of the past are still out there as well so it's not like the latest one will be completely eliminated by a vaccine even when it's mass produced.

[BritinUSA]

Is supply of coated bullets a problem or is it just powder/primers? I have about 1200 coated 9mm heads sitting in the garage, wondering if I should take them to a local match.

 

I don’t shoot any more, so I don’t need them

[Intheshaw1]

17 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:

Is supply of coated bullets a problem or is it just powder/primers? I have about 1200 coated 9mm heads sitting in the garage, wondering if I should take them to a local match.

 

I don’t shoot any more, so I don’t need them

Some places are backordered for weeks or months and some ship the next day so in short it depends.

 

Primers are what's nearly impossible to find along with ammo. Powder can be had but you probably won't get your first choice.

[Mcfoto]

18 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:

Is supply of coated bullets a problem or is it just powder/primers? I have about 1200 coated 9mm heads sitting in the garage, wondering if I should take them to a local match.

 

I don’t shoot any more, so I don’t need them

that would be very gracious and make you extremely popular. My last order of coated bullets took over two months. The worst right now for me is primers. Haven’t seen a single box retail since spring.

[BJB]

23 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:

Is supply of coated bullets a problem or is it just powder/primers? I have about 1200 coated 9mm heads sitting in the garage, wondering if I should take them to a local match.

 

I don’t shoot any more, so I don’t need them

You can still get coated bullets but there will be a wait involved.  Some waits are minimal & some are 3 months or better depending on the brand.  I imagine you would easily unload those 1200 bullets though.

[BritinUSA]

Appreciate the info; hopefully they will have a match this weekend so I can clear my workbench... found 4lbs of Titegroup too

[C-Money]

I for one am glad to see some calm, reasonable, and best of all skeptical discussion of the coof on this forum.

 

My local and nearby state matches seem to have much reduced attendance and round/stage count. The last match I went to had one stage with I think 24 rds and the rest were fewer. The weather, holidays, and shortages are all to blame for low attendance but I think the stage design changes are here to stay until MDs can get more primers.

 

Personally I'm shooting SS Major because I have some large primers and a gun to use them in. I'm also going to do more SC because I have some .22lr. 

 

One other observation is my home club has public membership (a for-profit club) and the amount of new shooters is huge. Mostly they are wearing all black tactical gear and shooting 9mm or .223. There are a lot of whole families going to practice or become familiar with guns. 

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, Twinkie said:

My local and nearby state matches seem to have much reduced attendance and round/stage count. The last match I went to had one stage with I think 24 rds and the rest were fewer. The weather, holidays, and shortages are all to blame for low attendance but I think the stage design changes are here to stay until MDs can get more primers.

 

Personally I'm shooting SS Major because I have some large primers and a gun to use them in. I'm also going to do more SC because I have some .22lr. 

 

great point. I design and build a stage for pretty much every match at my club. I am seeing more stages in the mid-20's and I am also designing them that way myself. They are still good interesting stages with options and challenging shots, just very few arrays with 4 targets right next to each other. Positions are 2 or 3 targets instead. 

 

I have the same plan to shoot SS major in the spring because I have the primers and because the hawktech 1911 match and SS nationals are only a few weeks apart, so I might as well just practice it for a couple months. Perhaps I'll see you there. I saw you at racegun nats but didn't get the chance to say hi. Plus your stage hurt my feelings....

Edited December 2, 2020 by motosapiens

[C-Money]

39 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

great point. I design and build a stage for pretty much every match at my club. I am seeing more stages in the mid-20's and I am also designing them that way myself. They are still good interesting stages with options and challenging shots, just very few arrays with 4 targets right next to each other. Positions are 2 or 3 targets instead. 

 

I have the same plan to shoot SS major in the spring because I have the primers and because the hawktech 1911 match and SS nationals are only a few weeks apart, so I might as well just practice it for a couple months. Perhaps I'll see you there. I saw you at racegun nats but didn't get the chance to say hi. Plus your stage hurt my feelings....

 

I agree 20-24 rd stages can often be lots of fun with some varied challenges. 

 

I plan on being at all the Nationals in 2021 (if they let me RO) and definitely at Single Stack because I shot Minor this year and so did more poorly than I would have liked.

 

I hope we'll both stay healthy and see each other in Talladega in 2021!