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PCC Recoil Help


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I am in the process of building a 9mm PCC.  I went with MidwayUSA AR Stoner Upper and Foxtrot Mike Lower.  I know it really doesn’t have a kick but I have had my neck fused twice and want the least amount as possible.  I’m trying to decide between DPM Recoil System or Shooting Innovations Recoil Reduction System.  Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

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I would look into the Taccom and their adjustable recoil system or their delayed blowback recoil system.  Honestly, recoil is so slight and it shouldn't be a factor.

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If you are recoil sensitive you will feel it by the end of the match.  If shooting USPSA at 130 PF you can minimize recoil, but not eliminate it.  If shooting SCSA you can eliminate it.  Another highly regarded recoil system is the JP captured spring system.  You can tune that six ways from Sunday.

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After 2 and recovering from the 3ed back surgery .I can tell you.Most on this form are not going to read or understand your quest.(9mm pcc has a bone jarring recoil impulse. That can be reduced significantly. First weight is your friend (make the gun heave).This is a double edged sword so to speak.I have tried Taccom , and MBX Systems. Ended up with  a BLITZKRIEG system. this onehttps://www.blitzkriegcomponents.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PCC-5015HDCP and a POF ar10 buffer tube https://www.blitzkriegcomponents.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=POF-BTAT-10      Next don't short stroke the system it makes the recoil sharper. Ammo has a large effect 

on the recoil impulse. Ill suggest ether A 135 or 147 gr bullet using Sport pistol powder loaded in the 130  to 140 power factor range. Now after you have a load  and buffer system in place you can experiment with short stroking but be aware  it will be a" sharper " impulse. you will just have to experiment with that your self     FYI the MBX system was my next choice on recoil.

Edited by AHI
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I have spent too much money tinkering to get the gun run reliable and good recoil.

 

I settled with Brekke 12" with their 4" vertical comp, Kynshot 5015HD with their SS spacer, JP 308 carbine spring, 5 or 6 quarters in the buffer tube, and a welded Bolt (Taccom Extreme bolt works too). 

 

This way, I am short stroking a lot. It's been very reliable and the best recoil. I can shoot all As at 25 yards with .13 splits. I don't need to push pull much either compared to muzzle breaks. With vertical comp, the gun comes back down automatically. For this, I have to make sure to use lighter bullets (115 or 124) to produce enough gas. I currently use 115gr at 140pf. 

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I have spent too much money tinkering to get the gun run reliable and good recoil.
 
I settled with Brekke 12" with their 4" vertical comp, Kynshot 5015HD with their SS spacer, JP 308 carbine spring, 5 or 6 quarters in the buffer tube, and a welded Bolt (Taccom Extreme bolt works too). 
 
This way, I am short stroking a lot. It's been very reliable and the best recoil. I can shoot all As at 25 yards with .13 splits. I don't need to push pull much either compared to muzzle breaks. With vertical comp, the gun comes back down automatically. For this, I have to make sure to use lighter bullets (115 or 124) to produce enough gas. I currently use 115gr at 140pf. 

I’m on this next shipment for Brekke 12”. It’s going on a full gmr build so it’s got a ton of weight behind the upper. I think this may help absorb it along with the short stroke silent capture.

With the 4” comp, you’re saying it’s possible to drive the comp a bit. Is this the way to go now? Just up the powder charge till it doesn’t move? Or just go for the lightest loads?
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On 8/1/2020 at 2:27 PM, hwansikcjswo said:

I have spent too much money tinkering to get the gun run reliable and good recoil.

 

I settled with Brekke 12" with their 4" vertical comp, Kynshot 5015HD with their SS spacer, JP 308 carbine spring, 5 or 6 quarters in the buffer tube, and a welded Bolt (Taccom Extreme bolt works too). 

 

This way, I am short stroking a lot. It's been very reliable and the best recoil. I can shoot all As at 25 yards with .13 splits. I don't need to push pull much either compared to muzzle breaks. With vertical comp, the gun comes back down automatically. For this, I have to make sure to use lighter bullets (115 or 124) to produce enough gas. I currently use 115gr at 140pf. 

Push pull?

Do you mean the way you hold your gun like some do with a pistol?

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2 hours ago, hello0o0o0o said:

With the 4” comp, you’re saying it’s possible to drive the comp a bit. Is this the way to go now? Just up the powder charge till it doesn’t move? Or just go for the lightest loads?

 

You do not need a vertical comp to minimize muzzle rise.  With my PCC setup (no comp or brake at all) I can put 147gr 144 PF rounds into a 2" circle at 25 yards as fast as I can pull the trigger. You do this by tuning your setup.

 

To my mind, the advantage of a vertical comp is to minimize dot bounce with lighter loads.  The ideal would be to get down to 128-130 PF with no bounce.  The comp can help with that, along with system tuning.  The comp will also reduce felt recoil to some extent.  So will a good muzzle brake.

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8 hours ago, hello0o0o0o said:


I’m on this next shipment for Brekke 12”. It’s going on a full gmr build so it’s got a ton of weight behind the upper. I think this may help absorb it along with the short stroke silent capture.

With the 4” comp, you’re saying it’s possible to drive the comp a bit. Is this the way to go now? Just up the powder charge till it doesn’t move? Or just go for the lightest loads?

 

You can check out Max leograndis' insta. He did some vids on his setup. I basically copied his build and ammo setup as close to his. 

I have tried 95gr, 115, 124, 147 loads from 130-160pf range. I find 115gr 140pf works the best for 12" brekke setup. 

Depends on your buffer setup and powder, I believe the ideal load may change.

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6 hours ago, dmshozer1 said:

Push pull?

Do you mean the way you hold your gun like some do with a pistol?

 

I was referring pulling the handguard in to the shoulder (chest) as push pull.

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You can check out Max leograndis' insta. He did some vids on his setup. I basically copied his build and ammo setup as close to his. 
I have tried 95gr, 115, 124, 147 loads from 130-160pf range. I find 115gr 140pf works the best for 12" brekke setup. 
Depends on your buffer setup and powder, I believe the ideal load may change.

Yep I’ve been trying to follow the same. Once it comes in I will try from 130-160 pf with 115s.
I’m using a Jp bolt and short stroke silent capture spring. Which I think should be solid... I’ll play with the ammo before I start messing with weights in the buffer.

I have to ask, what powder are you using and what do you suggest.
I’m running titegroup as of now.
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short stroking a PCC will increase recoil...  best way to reduce muzzle rise is to tune your ammo to your buffer system...  my Taccom ULW 5.25" barreled upper does not have a comp... i can put 2 holes in a target within 1/2" as fast as i can pull the trigger at 20 yards... PF is 126 .. using Sport Pistol powder..

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7 hours ago, hello0o0o0o said:


Yep I’ve been trying to follow the same. Once it comes in I will try from 130-160 pf with 115s.
I’m using a Jp bolt and short stroke silent capture spring. Which I think should be solid... I’ll play with the ammo before I start messing with weights in the buffer.

I have to ask, what powder are you using and what do you suggest.
I’m running titegroup as of now.

 

I am using Clean shot. Here is my load data.

This is my current load

                                                       powder weight                   OAL                             power factor

RMR 115JHP Clean Shot 4.2   1.100   141

 

 

This is my old load. 

 

EV 115JHP Clean Shot 4   1.080   135

 

 

 

I have JP bolt and SSCS too. I don't use them but I can say the load I use may not be the best for your buffer system. I couldn't get the JP buffer setup as good as my current setup. The current setup cycles so much faster due to extreme short stroke. I like how the red dot comes back to zero super fast.

 

End of the line, I would say as long as the dot comes back to zero for the second shot consistently without too much effort, it should be good to go. :)

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With the short stroke, do you still maintain the bolt catch action or simply get the trigger reset to function and not worry about the bolt catch?  The above picture implies (to me) the bolt catch will not engage.

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On 8/1/2020 at 12:27 PM, hwansikcjswo said:

I settled with Brekke 12" with their 4" vertical comp, Kynshot 5015HD with their SS spacer, JP 308 carbine spring, 5 or 6 quarters in the buffer tube, and a welded Bolt (Taccom Extreme bolt works too). 

 

 

 

No issues with the Hydraulic buffer then?  I have heard mixed results when it comes to using hydraulic buffers.

Edited by Boomstick303
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6 hours ago, WxGuy said:

With the short stroke, do you still maintain the bolt catch action or simply get the trigger reset to function and not worry about the bolt catch?  The above picture implies (to me) the bolt catch will not engage.

 

If you want LRBHO to work short stroked you are limited to the Taccom Extreme Short Stroke Bolt.  You can read about it here.  https://taccom3g.com/product/extreme-short-stroke-9mm-bolt-essb/ 

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40 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

If you want LRBHO to work short stroked you are limited to the Taccom Extreme Short Stroke Bolt.  You can read about it here.  https://taccom3g.com/product/extreme-short-stroke-9mm-bolt-essb/ 

 

I have that Taccom Bolt. It works great at keeping LRBHO with Blitzkreig 5015HD and SS spacer. 

 

But if you want to short stroke it even further, LRBHO will not work. But it still works to reset my Hiperfire trigger.

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If you have not invested a lot of money, sell it all and buy a Sig MPX.  The recoil is so much lighter with the Sig.  You will have to pay for the lighter recoil because they are not cheap. It is night and day in the recoil. Shoot someones Sig side by side to a AR. If you stay with the AR platform, don't make it to lite, remember weight is on your side sometimes. You will be shocked. All of this being said, I had 2 Sigs, they were flawless, I loved them, but expensive. I still shoot my AR. I am lucky that I have not had the medical issues and I am a fairly good sized fellow.

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If you have not invested a lot of money, sell it all and buy a Sig MPX.  The recoil is so much lighter with the Sig.  You will have to pay for the lighter recoil because they are not cheap. It is night and day in the recoil. Shoot someones Sig side by side to a AR. If you stay with the AR platform, don't make it to lite, remember weight is on your side sometimes. You will be shocked. All of this being said, I had 2 Sigs, they were flawless, I loved them, but expensive. I still shoot my AR. I am lucky that I have not had the medical issues and I am a fairly good sized fellow.

That is fine and all... but the reputation is not flawless. Which is why you don’t see everyone shooting them. It’s not the price.

That said yes the recoil is insane with the sig.
If you could get them to run reliably with 20k rounds before spring and minor replacements, then it will be a viable choice
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