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Rick_W

Custom action differences

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I am at a point in my life I would like to build a custom gun.  Just because.

 

I may never shoot a competition with it and it may never take it hunting, but it will see some range time.

 

I'm not asking what's the "best" because IMO that is subjective.

 

In no particular order, I'm considering the following:
Terminus Zeus

Seekins Havak

Impact 737R

Bighorn TL3

 

I plan to start with a 6.5 CM as I have a local range with 1000 yard lanes.

 

I want the ability to order a pre-fit shouldered barrel (no barrel nut, I do have Savages) and change it out myself if/when I need to.

 

I haven't decided on a stock or chassis but whichever I choose, I will want to use AICS style mags.  I may be able to pick up a Bergara HMR stock with detachable bottom metal for a good price.

 

I don't know if recoil lug thickness makes a difference.

 

I don't know if having a trigger hanger (or not) makes a difference with stock selection.

 

I don't understand what really differentiates the above actions from each other.

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I don't think you can go wrong with any of the above.  Decide what features are important to you, then make a small chart and check off who offers what you want.  You can also weight the features if some are more important than others.  What I look for is integral recoil lug, integral rail with 20 MOA elevation (I would highly recommend if you're planning on 1k+), one piece bolt, M16-type extractor, and AICS magazines.  Although not on your list, for me the best choice is Defiance Deviant.  In fact, that's what I just built up with a Foundation stock, Hawkins DBM, Proof cf barrel, Spuhr mount, NF 5-25 ACTAR, and TT Diamond 2-stage.  Not sure I like the barrel, but wanted to try one out.  Probably switch to Bartlein when it's time for a new one.

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Thank you.  I'll take a look at the Defiance page again.  There were several selections on that page that I didn't know what to choose on several.

 

As I'm currently overseas and will be for a little while, I can't just pick up the phone and call places to ask questions.

 

Does recoil lug thickness make a difference in stock selection?

 

Also, I think I understand that a trigger hanger  makes replacing a trigger easier/more convenient.  Does the use of the trigger hanger make an impact/difference in stock selection?

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When blueprinting a R700 it's pretty much standard procedure to use a heavy recoil lug.  Not sure how much difference that makes with any of the short action cartridges, but it certainly doesn't hurt.  Most custom actions have an integral lug, so this shouldn't be an issue.  On the trigger, most/all R700 clones have a slot in the action for the trigger assembly which is held in place with two pins.  So you can change triggers in about 2 minutes once the action's removed from the stock.  Doesn't get much easier than that.

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I would also research concept of buying a donor Tikka and using the Tikka action. Prefits are now available for Tikkas. I just built a 223 trainer on a Savage action and i was amazed how easy the barrel swap is and that 26 inch 1-7 223 Wylde shoots great with 75 and 80 ELDMs plus 80 SMKs.

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Terminus Zeus has become very popular on the other rifle forums and resale is probably better than the others listed. Bighorn has it's following as well. I have Defiance in various configurations on most of my rifles depending on use. All will do well with a CM but  think about resale value if you ever plan to move it. 

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On 7/31/2020 at 10:27 AM, ltdmstr said:

When blueprinting a R700 it's pretty much standard procedure to use a heavy recoil lug.  Not sure how much difference that makes with any of the short action cartridges, but it certainly doesn't hurt.  Most custom actions have an integral lug, so this shouldn't be an issue.  On the trigger, most/all R700 clones have a slot in the action for the trigger assembly which is held in place with two pins.  So you can change triggers in about 2 minutes once the action's removed from the stock.  Doesn't get much easier than that.

Thank you.  Did not realize the trigger was built that way.  I've only experienced swapping out triggers on ARs.

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On 7/31/2020 at 10:57 AM, ranger said:

I would also research concept of buying a donor Tikka and using the Tikka action. Prefits are now available for Tikkas. I just built a 223 trainer on a Savage action and i was amazed how easy the barrel swap is and that 26 inch 1-7 223 Wylde shoots great with 75 and 80 ELDMs plus 80 SMKs.

I've done the barrel swap on a Savage.  Savages have been really nice in the accuracy department from my experience.  The problem lies in aftermarket accessories, especially for short-action Savages.  Savage has changed so much over the years you have to be really careful ordering stocks, and the selection is still not all that great and costs more than stocks for Rem footprint actions.  Aftermarket trigger selection is not as good either.

 

The only Tika I've handled is the .22LR.  It is nice.

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2 hours ago, doc88 said:

Terminus Zeus has become very popular on the other rifle forums and resale is probably better than the others listed. Bighorn has it's following as well. I have Defiance in various configurations on most of my rifles depending on use. All will do well with a CM but  think about resale value if you ever plan to move it. 

Appreciate the information.  I don't often figure resale into things as I have a difficult time selling, even if I don't use them.

I'm not in a position to try the various actions to feel a difference.  With C-19, it's no telling when I'll get to come back to the states and I don't know how much time I'll have there when I do.

I don't know if I could "feel" the difference between a Terminus Zeus and a Terminus Apollo.

I've also just discovered Wolf Performance with their BAT actions.  It has the Remington lever throw (as do the Seekins, Impact and Bighorn actions) so I don't know how I would feel about that compared to the shorter throw of the Terminus/Curtis actions.  All of my experience has been behind a Savage and a Ruger.

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I am a huge fan of Impact Actions, I also love the fact that just about anyone of us can swap the barrels out which are available on there website.

Edited by 427Cobra

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11 hours ago, 427Cobra said:

I am a huge fan of Impact Actions, I also love the fact that just about anyone of us can swap the barrels out which are available on there website.

 

I mean this as no offense to you or anyone else, but very few people have been be able to tell me the difference between an action they have/like versus another action.  I get a lot of people telling me they love their action, but not what makes it different from any other action.  Is this because they don't have experience with another action?  Is it because there are no real differences except "feel", which is not measurable and can be subjective?

 

Bolt throw is measurable - why would a person choose 90° over 70° or 60°, or vice versa?

 

Extractors and ejectors - why choose a mini M-16 versus a claw-type extractor or something else?

 

Why choose an integral recoil lug over a pinned recoil lug?

 

Why choose a pinned and screwed rail over an integral rail or vice versa?

 

What does it mean "accepts BDL bottom metal" or "does not accept BDL bottom metal" mean?

 

I appreciate the feedback.  Still learning.

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19 hours ago, Rick_W said:

 

I mean this as no offense to you or anyone else, but very few people have been be able to tell me the difference between an action they have/like versus another action.  I get a lot of people telling me they love their action, but not what makes it different from any other action.  Is this because they don't have experience with another action?  Is it because there are no real differences except "feel", which is not measurable and can be subjective?

 

Bolt throw is measurable - why would a person choose 90° over 70° or 60°, or vice versa?

 

Extractors and ejectors - why choose a mini M-16 versus a claw-type extractor or something else?

 

Why choose an integral recoil lug over a pinned recoil lug?

 

Why choose a pinned and screwed rail over an integral rail or vice versa?

 

What does it mean "accepts BDL bottom metal" or "does not accept BDL bottom metal" mean?

 

I appreciate the feedback.  Still learning.

Bolt throw is no big deal, I don't see a difference in speed or accuracy, the Gap Tempest has a 60 degree throw, and a 3 lug bolt, Impact/Defiance/Surgeon have whatever degree and 2 lug bolts.

 

Ejectors are all the same, but extractors are either Rem or M16, I have never broken either so those are a wash

 

The integral recoil lug adds a lot of strength, a pinned lug works but no way is 2 pieces stronger than 1, also more barrel shank is in the receiver which may help with rigidity as things heat up

 

BDL bottom metal are a stock Rem700 hinged bottom metal, usually the internal mag holds 3-5 rounds, so any AICS bottom metal or stock that uses AICS mags will work, AIAX mags require different rails for the bolt, I also see more issues with AIAX mags versus AICS mags in Rem pattern actions, in a dedicated AI rifle they are flawless

Edited by 427Cobra

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7 hours ago, 427Cobra said:

Bolt throw is no big deal, I don't see a difference in speed or accuracy, the Gap Tempest has a 60 degree throw, and a 3 lug bolt, Impact/Defiance/Surgeon have whatever degree and 2 lug bolts.

 

Ejectors are all the same, but extractors are either Rem or M16, I have never broken either so those are a wash

 

The integral recoil lug adds a lot of strength, a pinned lug works but no way is 2 pieces stronger than 1, also more barrel shank is in the receiver which may help with rigidity as things heat up

 

BDL bottom metal are a stock Rem700 hinged bottom metal, usually the internal mag holds 3-5 rounds, so any AICS bottom metal or stock that uses AICS mags will work, AIAX mags require different rails for the bolt, I also see more issues with AIAX mags versus AICS mags in Rem pattern actions, in a dedicated AI rifle they are flawless

Thank you.

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