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Very bad leading with coated bullets


Sean_Doe
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I am new to reloading. I bought some DG Hi-Tek super coat 115 grain bullets.  I loaded  them on top of 4.5gr of HP-38. About 1120 ft/s from my Glock 34.  They lead out the barrel very bad very quick in all my Glocks. I did some reading and figure I was scraping the coating during seating. So I started flaring out the cases much more and was real careful during seating and crimping.  I even trIED sport pistol powder and I pull more than a few bullets out of the batch to verify the coating wasn’t damaged and the bullet weren’t underside during the crimp. They still lead up the barrels in by G26, g19 and G34 in hurry. I have loaded some 125 and 147 grain bullets from Blue Bullets and have had no problems. What and I doing wrong. 

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Don't over crimp your bullet and crack the coating underneath the brass case. I only crimp my coated bullets tight enough to keep them in place. I started out by crimping one round and then pull it out the case to see if it's just tight enough to put a mark all the way around the bullet, but it does not over press or crack the coating.

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The bullets are .356. As I stated I did start flying the cases more to about .389-.390. And i only crimp them doe to .378-.3775 There is a picture of a bullet that has been pulled. No damage to coating and the bullet still measures .356

Edited by Sean_Doe
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I bought some 0.40 coated from a new local vendor and a few friends did also. We all had leading issues, the vendor said it had something to do with how he applied the coating and offered refunds.

 

A major coated bullet supplier had a thermocouple failure that resulted in overcooking the alloyed lead. These leaded horribly also, the vendor stated that you could tell the problem batches by smacking bullets with a hammer and noting if they seemed brittle.  

 

I've also got one gun sold as 9mm that will lead severely if you try to run coated through it that is less than 0.358 . 

 

For what it is worth. 

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The coating on your bullet looks pretty thin maybe it's just the picture, I don't know.  but these are my bullets I get from Dr bullet( Cecil Christenbury out of Topeka Kansas) and he coats the hell out of them, and they run through my glocks  really smooth. Good luck with finding out why your gun is leading. Maybe you need to slug that Glock Barrel. Just saying 

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It looks like you are doing everything correctly.  Perhaps you should contact DG Bullets to see if they have a known issue with your particular lot of bullets?  

 

HP-38 is known to burn hot.  Do you happen to have any other powder on hand to try?  

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15 minutes ago, Ken6PPC said:

It looks like you are doing everything correctly.  Perhaps you should contact DG Bullets to see if they have a known issue with your particular lot of bullets?  

This. DG might have the answer. You might send them a few of the bullets.

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Are you getting ALL the lead out of your barrel when starting out? A bronze brush wrapped with some copper chore boy strands will scrape it out easily. Any that’s left in the corners will just tear up the new rounds and start over again. And No, shooting jacketed Won’t magically clean it out! Main reasons for leading are, poor fit, rough bore, poor lube and too high of psi or velocity for the alloy used. 

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I would also slug your barrel if possible to actually see what the dia is, when I was running a bullet that was only sized at .355 in my barrel I would get leading. I slugged my barrel and found the dia was .3555 so I switched to a .356 dia bullet and the leading went away (using blue bullets)

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4 hours ago, Ken6PPC said:

It looks like you are doing everything correctly.  Perhaps you should contact DG Bullets to see if they have a known issue with your particular lot of bullets?  

 

HP-38 is known to burn hot.  Do you happen to have any other powder on hand to try?  

Yes I tried it with sport pistol too.  Same issue. The Sport Pistol loads I loaded were a bit hotter though. I did contact DG bullets. Waiting to here back from them. 
thanks

 

3 hours ago, Farmer said:

Are you getting ALL the lead out of your barrel when starting out? A bronze brush wrapped with some copper chore boy strands will scrape it out easily. Any that’s left in the corners will just tear up the new rounds and start over again. And No, shooting jacketed Won’t magically clean it out! Main reasons for leading are, poor fit, rough bore, poor lube and too high of psi or velocity for the alloy used. 

Thanks I’ll try that chore boy. I was having a real tough time trying to get that lead out. 

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28 minutes ago, Sean_Doe said:

Thanks I’ll try that chore boy. I was having a real tough time trying to get that lead out. 

 

0000 Steel Wool works too.  It is fine enough that limited use won't cause any harm.  I still prefer copper, just to be safe. 

 

Make sure the scrubber you get is copper all the way through - not just copper coated.  

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 Try Precision Bullets if you want to load coated, and at a larger dia if your barrel slugs large. In my CZs, with .3555 " barrels, .358" Precisions are the only coated that shot clean.  Use a proper dia.  expander and no FCD.  IMO as a new reloader its better to start with jacketed  and learn the process and its pitfalls first.  Coated are much more sensitive to process variables.  Good jacketed from RMR are not much more anyway.  

Edited by GMP
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Leading means the bullet does not fit the barrel or the lube is bad.

Actually slug the barrel and get bullets that are AT LEAST 0.001" LARGER than actual groove diameter. From guns I have slugged, 9x19 barrels have ranged from 0.3545 to 0.3615".

For virtually ALL bullets, pull a bullet after seating and crimping and check it for damage or change in diameter. Your dies are not adjusted until you have passed this test.

For coated bullets, you have the possibility that the coating was imperfectly formulated or improperly cured. Call the manufacturer.

Finally, for all lead bullets that lead the barrel, a simple very light application of Lee Liquid Alox has always solved the issue.

If using a Lee FCD, either throw it away or remove the ceramic SIZING RING. I found about 10 years ago that they DID swage down my lead bullets and I haven't used them since. The main reason to use them is because you can't seat a bullet coaxially with the case, so you get a case bulge where the bullet presses out on the case at the bullet base. Learn to seat the bullet properly and throw away the crutch. A properly EXPANDED case (not case mouth flare) ID that is 0.001-0.002" under actual bullet diameter and a bullet seating stem that FITS the bullets (and isn't simply "the best fit" out of the bad generic seating stems you have) will go a long way to improve the ammunition.

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2 minutes ago, noylj said:

The main reason to use them is because you can't seat a bullet coaxially with the case, so you get a case bulge where the bullet presses out on the case at the bullet base. Learn to seat the bullet properly and throw away the crutch.

 

I use mine because in a 9mm wheel gun it prevents bullets from walking out of the brass and I have not found any negative performance results in any of my guns,  there may be other cures for bullets walking that I am not aware of.  

 

I'm not sure that swaging the portion of the bullet that is not left exposed is necessarily a concern. As I understand it the base of the bullet needs to deform when you fire the gun in order to seal well enough to prevent gas blow by from creating leading (too hard of a bullet creates leading as does too soft), so I'm not sure that the gun knows if part of the bullet was swaged by the brass. 

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No, you will find that ANY swaging of the lead bullet is bad (unless you can swage the bullet only in the middle of the bearing surface so the bullet base and shoulder will still seal the barrel. The FCD can only swage the bearing surface of the bullet (BAD) or the base of the bullet that was seated crooked (BAD) and "adjust" the bearing surface so the center of gravity is no longer coaxial with the barrel.

The bullet only NEEDS to deform to seal for very low pressure wadcutter cartridges (.38 Spl wadcutters at <750fps and .32 S&W L at <700fps), and yet I have never found that to work. In fact, for best accuracy of HBWC bullets, I find that a bullet of 0.360" at the skirt and NOT swaged down is the most accurate, despite the fact that the skirt should expand and seal the barrel. Sorry, tested to many wadcutters over the years and that finding keeps being proven in revolvers and semi-autos.

 Other than that, you don't want to swage the bullet down at all--it has to tightly seal the barrel or hot gasses will blow by the lead bullet and melt off lead from the being surface and lead the barrel (and, NO, the bullet base does NOT melt). This is why with Lee Liquid Alox and some/all coatings, size is not so critical as the coating itself resists ablation.

PS: Lee invented the things for the problem I described. There may be other uses, but they will still rate as problems that have other and better solutions.

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929.JPG.c55e3ed342f52ed060af874aec7c8f94.JPG

 

 

I am not a great group shooter, particularly with a wheel gun shooting double action, and that is not the best group I've shot with the gun/load combination. It would be interesting to see what the gun/load is capable of with a better shooter or a ransom rest. 

Anyway , 20 yards, 0.358 SNS (or Bayou have had same results) coated , S&W 929, Lee undersized die.

The results I get are good enough for my purposes, the barrels do not lead (other guns are 0.356 though), theories aside I am happy with the U-die. 

 

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Interesting I thought how well coating adheres (bullets fired into a tree). 

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