Hammer follow..

[vgdvc]

I believe I'm getting Hammer follow on my 2011 open pistol. Happened once at my last match. Today happened on 3 out of 10 stages. This has not happened during standing practice session. Hammer just goes dead. Racking the slide ejects an unfired round and puts it back into battery so I'm figuring it must be hammer follow. I have cocked the hammer put the safety on pulled on the trigger then released the trigger and disengage safety and the hammer does not drop so I'm figuring I still have good Hammer hook and sear engagement. I also will keep the trigger pinned to the rear and rack the slide violently several times then release the trigger and also try to put some pressure on the rear of the hammer to see if it will fall forward and it remains in place. I have not tried to adjust the sear spring leg yet as I want to see if there are other possibilities for this. Recommendations on diagnosing and remedy is greatly appreciated, thanks.

[Cherokeewind]

Normally you don't want to drop the slide, from the slide lock position, on an empty chamber but in this case you might do that a couple of times and see if the hammer falls.

 

Sounds like you need more tension on the sear spring as well and maybe the dis-connector leaf as well.

[vgdvc]

Thanks for the reply. I'm figuring that's the direction I may need to go just wondering if there's something else I'm overlooking before I readjust the spring tension. I believe I have enough pre-and overtravel in the trigger but I'll make sure that didn't change adjustment either.

[raz-0]

I'll go with the  "duh" suggestion just in case, but have you checked the primer? Insufficiently seated printers sometime don't go boom, trying to fire them just seats the primers fully and they will usually fire if you manually chock the hammer and fire a second time. 

 

I'd assume your checked this but since you didn't say...

[Cherokeewind]

"Hammer follow" is usually caught by the half cock notch, that's probably the reason the cartridge isn't firing. 

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, vgdvc said:

I believe I'm getting Hammer follow on my 2011 open pistol. Happened once at my last match. Today happened on 3 out of 10 stages. This has not happened during standing practice session. Hammer just goes dead. Racking the slide ejects an unfired round and puts it back into battery so I'm figuring it must be hammer follow. I have cocked the hammer put the safety on pulled on the trigger then released the trigger and disengage safety and the hammer does not drop so I'm figuring I still have good Hammer hook and sear engagement. I also will keep the trigger pinned to the rear and rack the slide violently several times then release the trigger and also try to put some pressure on the rear of the hammer to see if it will fall forward and it remains in place. I have not tried to adjust the sear spring leg yet as I want to see if there are other possibilities for this. Recommendations on diagnosing and remedy is greatly appreciated, thanks.

Is the hammer down after firing a shot? Are you sure? 

[Cherokeewind]

1 minute ago, Cherokeewind said:

delete

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Cherokeewind

[Cherokeewind]

1 minute ago, Cherokeewind said:

"Hammer follow" should be, and usually is, caught by the half cock notch, that's probably the reason the cartridge isn't firing. 

 

[dansedgli]

I'm gonna go with hammer and sear engagement. 

 

 

[vgdvc]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

Is the hammer down after firing a shot? Are you sure? 

Not sure if down all the way or at halfcock. It happened each time on the clock so didn't analyze all the details. I had to rack the slide to get back to going. Each time a loaded round was ejected. No  light primer strikes on retrieved rounds so I know the hammer didn't fall with the trigger pulled. 

[vgdvc]

37 minutes ago, dansedgli said:

I'm gonna go with hammer and sear engagement. 

 

 

If the hammer hook/sear engagement was that slight wouldn't dropping the slide on empty chamber 3x,then engaging safety and pulling on trigger then disengaging safety drop the hammer? 

[konkapot]

+1 on left leg of sear spring. 

 

That being said.......there's an oddball thing that can happen. If you are shooting a plastic grip, there's a chance that your grip is squeezing thing just enough to cause intermittent hammer follow that, so far, only happens at matches. I had serious problems with this back in the day. 

[dansedgli]

Just now, vgdvc said:

If the hammer hook/sear engagement was that slight wouldn't dropping the slide on empty chamber 3x,then engaging safety and pulling on trigger then disengaging safety drop the hammer? 

 

Ive had the same issue before. Those tests your did were fine but nothing fixed it apart from fixing the hammer and sear engagement.

Also check your grip screws if its a 2011. That could be a chance. If they are loose it can play up. 

[vgdvc]

2 minutes ago, konkapot said:

+1 on left leg of sear spring. 

 

That being said.......there's an oddball thing that can happen. If you are shooting a plastic grip, there's a chance that your grip is squeezing thing just enough to cause intermittent hammer follow that, so far, only happens at matches. I had serious problems with this back in the day. 

Interesting.... Yes it's a plastic , narrowed DVC STI plastic grip. And I do grip hard.

[konkapot]

I would inspect the heck out of that grip, particularly if you've done any modifications to it. 

 

This is a random, but very real thing. 

 

Even cracking under the bottom of the sear spring is possible. 

[vgdvc]

2 minutes ago, konkapot said:

I would inspect the heck out of that grip, particularly if you've done any modifications to it. 

 

This is a random, but very real thing. 

 

Even cracking under the bottom of the sear spring is possible. 

I just checked the grip screws. it took a heavy half turn on the left side and almost one full turn on the right side to snug them up. Grip is a factory DVC so it was done professionally but yes is thinner all the way around so easier to compress with a hard grip squeeze. 

[konkapot]

Boom.

 

I'd put a little stink on that left sear spring leg and shoot that thing. 

 

My relationship with the Hammer Follow Gods was never good. They sometimes strike again after you've "fixed" the problem. 

[vgdvc]

I appreciate everybody's replies. Never even thought about the grip influencing things. I think I'm going to tear it down, clean everything up, look for even wear on the hooks and sear, put a little more tension on the sear spring and make sure the grip screws are snugged to where they should be.(with a little vibra-tite) We'll see what happens from there... If there are any other suggestions I'm definitely all ears, thanks. 

[jcc7x7]

Clean the screws and bushings really well with a solvent that will break down the old loctite or what every you had on them.

Re-install after inspection with some blue loctite or something similiar.

[ltdmstr]

It's common for the sear spring to shift on plastic grips because the slot in the grip is wider than the spring.  A lot of people wrap a piece of tape around the bottom to prevent this.  If tightening the grip and adding tape (if necessary) doesn't solve the problem, then it's probably the sear spring.  Those don't normally wear out, but if tension was marginal to start with, it doesn't take much to make a difference.  Same with the hammer and sear.  If engagement was fine to start with, that shouldn't be an issue, unless you have a LOT of rounds through the gun or they were crap parts to start with (like factory STI).

[TONY BARONE]

If you are not totally familiar with the fire control in a 2011  there are quite a few things that can cause hammer follow in a plastic grip. You are in Pa. ask Geo. Smith who he would recommend to check your trigger. The half cock will work only with the correct take up.

[vgdvc]

I received two EGW evolved sear springs. Going to clean everything up, re tighten the grip screws, check everything over and reassemble with a properly tensioned new EGW sear. spring. We'll also make sure proper trigger pre and over travel has not changed

[CHA-LEE]

If your grip screws were loose then that is the issue. You need to keep on top of those to ensure they are always tight. The plastic grip can also fail where the metal inserts the screw bushings engage start to delaminates from the plastic. The best way to test that is to make sure the grip screws are tight then look at the mating point between the back of the frame and the back of the grip right where the grip safety crosses that frame/grip point. There shouldn’t be a gap between the fram and grip. You should also not be able to creat a gap by trying to push the grip up/down while holding the frame still. If you can change that gap my flexing the grip up/down, then the grip is failed and needs to be replaced. Plastic grips will fail faster if they are checkered or trimmed down. 
 

I also want to mention that this exact issue has been discussed many times on this forum. Use the search function to look for exciting discussions on this “hammer follow” issue.

[vgdvc]

15 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

If your grip screws were loose then that is the issue. You need to keep on top of those to ensure they are always tight. The plastic grip can also fail where the metal inserts the screw bushings engage start to delaminates from the plastic. The best way to test that is to make sure the grip screws are tight then look at the mating point between the back of the frame and the back of the grip right where the grip safety crosses that frame/grip point. There shouldn’t be a gap between the fram and grip. You should also not be able to creat a gap by trying to push the grip up/down while holding the frame still. If you can change that gap my flexing the grip up/down, then the grip is failed and needs to be replaced. Plastic grips will fail faster if they are checkered or trimmed down. 
 

I also want to mention that this exact issue has been discussed many times on this forum. Use the search function to look for exciting discussions on this “hammer follow” issue.

Thanks for the detailed info. I will check these points and if all looks good run another match (since I've only noticed the follow at my last 2 matches) before changing the sear spring.

[Dranoel]

Seems to be a lot of threads on this lately and one issue that isn't covered in any of them is the take up tabs on the trigger. I have seen a lot of shooters and smiths that adjust those tabs to the point that the trigger is not allowing the sear full travel. This shortens the sear engagement for a short pull but can cause the sear to start "falling off" the hammer after a while if you go too far. This is the easy but wrong way of getting a shorter trigger. I usually set the trigger tabs so I have just enough take up to feel the trigger hit the sear. (0.0100-0.0125") This allows the sear to fully engage the hammer and I have never had a hammer follow problem like this.