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rowdyb

Some different match math for improvement.

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I've recently had a lot of "ah ha" moments in my competitive shooting, all of it on the mental side of the game. Either in someone helping me, @CHA-LEE, or in the couple people who've reached out to me recently. I received help in my stage planning but the past week I exposed others to some concepts where they had a moment of clarity so I'd like to share them with you as well. The graphics in the video are what I shared with the others this week and seeing it is what really made it stand out for them, but I'll briefly write about them as well. It's nothing new, but presented in a way that made more than one person I know say, "I finally get it now!" so it could be of some value to others.

  • The absolute value of the target and how this really emphasizes points.
  • Concept of "Sooner, not faster". The idea of as I say 'front loading" what you do versus just trying to be faster.
  • How what you decide to improve on a stage's elements actually effects your time.

 

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Thanks for the math lesson Rowdy!

  1. It's interesting to do a personal HF curve to determine your own optimal HF range. For example, if it takes me T time to hit all Alphas, then I need to be at least 0.6*T faster to get the same or better HF (shooting minor). Whether or not you make the trade depends on your own shooting ability and experimentation. Theoretically, there should be a curve between a person's All-Alphas-speed and All-Delta-speed with a max somewhere in between. This max isn't always intuitive. As for the absolute value of a target, I treat Mikes as non possibilities unless if they're NPM.
  2. This kinda relates to the myth of shifting gears. There's only one gear. That gear gets stronger through practice. That gear engages sooner through awareness. Doing things sooner is removing all the mental overhead and just letting your skills flow.
  3. Soooo when are you switching to the ultimate draw, transition, and movement gun?

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Rowdy, thanks for the post.  A nice way to visualize those components of match math.

 

 

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Good Stuff!!!......... I cover this exact concept of figuring out what is "really" costing you the most performance during stage runs vs what you should be practicing in my book Path of Focused Effort in great detail.

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26 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

Good Stuff!!!......... I cover this exact concept of figuring out what is "really" costing you the most performance during stage runs vs what you should be practicing in my book Path of Focused Effort in great detail.

 

I second getting this book! Well I have it, and plan to re read it.

2 hours ago, CClassForLife said:

Thanks for the math lesson Rowdy!

  1. It's interesting to do a personal HF curve to determine your own optimal HF range. For example, if it takes me T time to hit all Alphas, then I need to be at least 0.6*T faster to get the same or better HF (shooting minor). Whether or not you make the trade depends on your own shooting ability and experimentation. Theoretically, there should be a curve between a person's All-Alphas-speed and All-Delta-speed with a max somewhere in between. This max isn't always intuitive. As for the absolute value of a target, I treat Mikes as non possibilities unless if they're NPM.
  2. This kinda relates to the myth of shifting gears. There's only one gear. That gear gets stronger through practice. That gear engages sooner through awareness. Doing things sooner is removing all the mental overhead and just letting your skills flow.
  3. Soooo when are you switching to the ultimate draw, transition, and movement gun?

1. I disagree totally with how you word this as it is outcome focused versus action/process focused.

2. Again, I want to tilt the prism you're looking through. Thinking of "a gear", a definite article indicating singular is limiting. And binary. I prefer to think of a CVT if you want a mechanical reference and have all the gears available. Not just one.

3. My degree is in radiologic science with a focus on nuclear medicine. So while I took a ton of physics it wasn't heavily Newtonian physics. But generally work is defined as effort and displacement, usually of an item. And with direction. I would posit that it is well within most human beings physical ability (effort and direction) to draw and transition and move with a 50 ounce gun to the exact same level as a 24 ounce gun. The variable then is effort. And while the effort may be greater for the 50 ounce gun versus a 24 ounce gun it is well within the physiological capabilities of an adult human being. The idea that lighter guns move faster is false. They may be easier to move initially but the limiting factor of how quickly a gun is drawn or transitioned is majority determined by effort. Effort, not mass. Human capability far exceeds the difference in mass between the two items.

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  1. Let's reword it to your turtle speed vs hoser speed. Optimal HF lies somewhere in between. The reason why I prefer the outcome approach here is that it's somewhat more objective than how fast you feel like you're shooting. But I'm interested in how you would see this through an action focused perspective.
  2. This is more so personal philosophy. I actually find the single gear idea freeing. When there are no choices to be made, then it's easier to just do the action. I used to shoot with the mindset of being able to adjust to a different pace based on what I need, but I started to shoot significantly better when I realized that there's only one pace. The pace at which my eyes can see. No slower, no faster.
  3. More so a joke on my end 🙂

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Posted (edited)

as a mathematician, I hate to see people use words like 'exact'. It's easy to prove that in fact you *can't* move a 50oz gun exactly as fast as a 24oz gun, just like Usain Bolt can't run exactly as fast while carrying a 15 lb backpack.  However, I suspect you *can* probably move the gun close enough to the same speed that it becomes a non-issue in the majority of situations in USPSA.

 

I think anyone who shoots steel challenge seriously would be able to produce empirical evidence that within reason, a lighter gun results in faster string times, all other things being equal. 

 

But enough nitpicking, mrs moto and I have done quite a bit of experimentation the last year or so with seeing how much extra time does it really take to see a smidgen more and get more points, and generally the answer is almost no time at all. It just takes a commitment to call both shots on a target, and then the practice and focus to do that at higher speeds.

Edited by motosapiens

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5 hours ago, motosapiens said:

mathematician

Correct. I was definitely speaking in generalities. 

 

Can a human being accelerate a 24 oz gun from rest to in front of their face in 0.70 seconds? Yes. Can they do the same with a 50 oz gun? Yes. So to me weight isn't an issue when it comes to speed at which we move our pistols around. Though the effort to do so is considerably different. 

 

Reminds me of physics problems that start with "ignoring friction" hahaha.

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Really my video was made to put information in a different display to hopefully help people.

 

Not to start arguments. Not to make it about some else's philosophy. Not for me to get cranky. I wasn't asking for contributions or validation. 

 

Like most things, if it doesn't work for you keep searching.

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

Can a human being accelerate a 24 oz gun from rest to in front of their face in 0.70 seconds? Yes. Can they do the same with a 50 oz gun? Yes.

 

I would be utterly shocked if it turned out that the best time (to 2 decimal places) was equal for a 24 oz and 50oz gun. I would expect to see somewhere around .05 difference, just based on my own testing. Which is still not that significant, but mathematician, ya know.....  .05 seconds pales in comparison to the difference between A and C (generally .1-.2 seconds for major pf depending on the hose-factor of the stage)

Edited by motosapiens

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Thanks for the example/explanation, helps to know the “little things” for improvement. 

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I had made a Power Point slide that I would sometimes use to explain the role of training and how the typical timing of a draw works (can be used for anything), so when you mentioned "front loading" in the video, it reminded me of this slide. Hope you don't mind me dropping it off here even if it might be slightly off topic... 

SpeedCurve.png.73548dd5a21f3fdd8e83dcb477f4e666.png

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On 8/1/2020 at 3:18 PM, IVC said:

I had made a Power Point slide that I would sometimes use to explain the role of training and how the typical timing of a draw works (can be used for anything), so when you mentioned "front loading" in the video, it reminded me of this slide. Hope you don't mind me dropping it off here even if it might be slightly off topic... 

SpeedCurve.png.73548dd5a21f3fdd8e83dcb477f4e666.png

that is a fantastic visual that works for most everything we do.

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