Why not allow a weapon mounted light in production/carry optics?

[AverageJoeShooting]

7 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

You've only been shooting 4 months and already have a better handle on this stuff the HQ. lol.

 

Also, I thought CO was dumb too back when it was meant to be Prod-Optics. Now days it's booming, around here it's the only division with any heat and soon will probably be the biggest division in the game. 

And its like why spend 5k on a gun plus reloading equipment plus the time it takes to become proficient when you can just complain until uspsa creates a new division for you. Let's be honest, uspsa will do anything for money at this point. Whats that old saying " if the facts don't support your narrative, then change the facts"? If someone doesn't want to put in all the time and resources to be good in open, then just complain till uspsa caves and creates a special division for you. Thus carry optics was born. 

 

[RJH]

6 minutes ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

Yea i mean it makes uspsa huge money because its basically poverty open. It gives people a chance to go fast with a red dot without spending 5k on an open gun. 

 

And the guns even work 

[RJH]

Just now, AverageJoeShooting said:

And its like why spend 5k on a gun plus reloading equipment plus the time it takes to become proficient when you can just complain until uspsa creates a new division for you. Let's be honest, uspsa will do anything for money at this point. Whats that old saying " if the facts don't support your narrative, then change the facts"? If someone doesn't want to put in all the time and resources to be good in open, then just complain till uspsa caves and creates a special division for you. Thus carry optics was born. 

 

 

You are beginning to sound like an open shooter who gets his ass kicked by CO shooters.........

 

And is afraid giving them a frame weight will make the disparity even bigger

[Blaize]

Some HUUUURRRRT feelings in this thread!!!! 

[AverageJoeShooting]

Bro i shot my first uspsa match March 20th. Everyone kicks my ass. But it gives me areas that I know I need to work on. My ego isn't so fragile that someone beating me breaks me. There will always be people who are better than us at everything. That applies everywhere in life. You have two options, cry and whine about it until uspsa creates a new division for you, or rise to the challenge and motivate yourself to become better.

[AverageJoeShooting]

Just now, AverageJoeShooting said:

Bro i shot my first uspsa match March 20th. Everyone kicks my ass. But it gives me areas that I know I need to work on. My ego isn't so fragile that someone beating me breaks me. There will always be people who are better than us at everything. That applies everywhere in life. You have two options, cry and whine about it until uspsa creates a new division for you, or rise to the challenge and motivate yourself to become better.

and I mean I've been shooting much longer than March, but I used to be in the camp of people who thought 3gun was fun (I shot open there too). Then I realized 3gun sucks and uspsa is the true path. 

If you wanna use a weapon light, go do it in idpa or 3 gun. Both of those sports allow it. 

You wanna spend tons of money and go as fast as possible while you blaze past targets hosing them down as you go? Shoot open uspsa. 

 

I dont knock anyone for their choices, but you wouldn't show up to a Nascar race and expect to compete in your Toyota 4 runner. Furthermore what do you think would happen if you went and whined at Nascar until they let you? 

 

Go compete in the specific sport that allows what you want. Its all shooting sports 

 

The argument we should all be facing is why our 2A rights continue to get stomped on, not something as petty as a weapon light

[louu]

I've always thought the 2014 rule book was perfect. Can we go back to that time period and stay there? It was a much simpler and affordable time where men showed up to shoot the s#!t and shoot some targets, a good time was had by all.

 

Now it takes 10 hours to listen to a bunch of people cry over a rule book, (that doesn't exist) how much their blouses cost, how they broke the rules and got away with it, and how much ammo they can fit in their little rifles magazine. 

 

All this talk about expanding the sport (game) and no one realizes all they are doing by all these changes is making it more expensive and intimidating to the new guys

Edited July 22, 2020 by louu

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, RJH said:

 

And the guns even work 

and are actually practical.

[motosapiens]

19 minutes ago, louu said:

I've always thought the 2014 rule book was perfect. <snip>

 

Now it takes 10 hours to listen to a bunch of people cry over a rule book, (that doesn't exist) how much their blouses cost, how they broke the rules and got away with it, and how much ammo they can fit in their little rifles magazine. 

 

 

I worked nationals in 2012, (and every time since that they've been in the west). I don't see any difference in the amount of crying over rules.

[Blaize]

Seems like people “cried” for a PCC division and a hi cap minor division to run a dot, and *gasp* they are among the two most popular divisions right now! Crazy! Almost like people got together and discussed something and were like “yeah that WOULD be pretty cool!” 
 

also seems like everyone had an issue with both of these, complained about them, cried about them, and said they would never take off..... and here we are now.

[SGT_Schultz]

3 hours ago, IVC said:

And we should get rid of that 140/170 artificial limit. PCC magazines for everyone! Yay! Also, why even have divisions? Everyone shoots what they brung (sic)...

 

/sarcasm

That's not what I'm talking about.  I'm talking about a P/CO mag limit closer to what comes from the factory.

[AverageJoeShooting]

1 hour ago, Blaize said:

Seems like people “cried” for a PCC division and a hi cap minor division to run a dot, and *gasp* they are among the two most popular divisions right now! Crazy! Almost like people got together and discussed something and were like “yeah that WOULD be pretty cool!” 
 

also seems like everyone had an issue with both of these, complained about them, cried about them, and said they would never take off..... and here we are now.

Everyone knew it would take off, cuz theres no shortage of tactical timmies. 

[echotango]

9 hours ago, motosapiens said:

22 hours ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

My open gun is 55 oz. Just saying

 

 

Quote

what's your current classification? How do you finish in  major?

 

Most open guns with a steel grip are in the mid 50oz range. I don't see many plastic grips anymore. My open guns are all 57oz.  

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by echotango

[Blaize]

35 minutes ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

Everyone knew it would take off, cuz theres no shortage of tactical timmies. 

so explain this “tactical timmie” to me?

 

Who is he and why is it a bad thing to get him involved in the sport?

 

sure must have been a lot of tactical timmies hiding in the USPSA, due to the popularity of those two divisions

Edited July 22, 2020 by Blaize

[TrackCage]

We had a club local to us that was mostly timmies who didn't know the rules, signed up for whatever (Production Major, etc.) and seemed like they would shoot whatever was put in front of them. They didn't know USPSA rules and despite being told, some didn't seem to want to listen. Fast forward to when there was new management and they cleaned it up, and all of the actual timmies fled. The core group that stayed ran matches as they should have all along.

 

Nothing wrong with timmies that want to play the game. But timmies who just want to timmy are dangerous.

[IVC]

1 hour ago, SGT_Schultz said:

That's not what I'm talking about.  I'm talking about a P/CO mag limit closer to what comes from the factory.

CO already has length-based limit, nothing wrong with that. It's a division that has a life of its own and I wouldn't be surprised to see lights allowed soon. I don't have a preference either way. 

 

Production should stay the way it is, with the low cap limit. It's the gateway into the sport for those who already have a gun and want to try out the sport. I cannot count the number of people who talked to me about shooting USPSA, but were intimidated by all the gear and rules. You have to admit, it's daunting for someone who's never shot an action sport before. I tell them to just bring what they have and that they will be fine. When they see others shooting the same guns as theirs, they relax and feel good about the match. In this case, perception is everything and it's the perception of the outsiders looking in, not the perception of the insiders. 

 

Imagine going to a, say, precision pistol match, where they have odd-looking guns with shooting boxes on the bench, mounted spotting scopes, odd calibers... If you didn't know what it's all about, wouldn't you want to see how bad you suck by comparing to someone shooting the same gear? At least you feel you're being slaughtered in a fair fight. Just my 2c. 

[SGT_Schultz]

58 minutes ago, IVC said:

Production should stay the way it is, with the low cap limit. It's the gateway into the sport for those who already have a gun and want to try out the sport.

LOLOL  that must be why every noob here is told to shoot limited minor for their first few matches.

 

We don't want those kinds of people

56 minutes ago, IVC said:

 I cannot count the number of people who talked to me about shooting USPSA, but were intimidated by all the gear and rules.

[HCH]

This should be an either/or rule. 

 

Either allow whatever gun you want in CO (that’s on the production list), plus x number of ounces over factory weight,

 

or

 

say x is the maximum number of ounces your gun is allowed to weigh. Period. 

 

No more of this “well... your gun can weigh 59 ounces, but only if your gun can weigh that much with the weights that we say you can use, mkay? Got it? Mkay” 

 

It makes no no sense how the rules are set now. At all. 

[Racinready300ex]

16 hours ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

 plus the time it takes to become proficient when you can just complain 

 

 

This part I have to admit is funny coming from someone who's been in the game for 4 months. It's unlikely you grasp what time or proficient even look like. 

16 hours ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

If you wanna use a weapon light, go do it in idpa or 3 gun. Both of those sports allow it. 

 

IDPA requires lights to be hand held. FYI

[AverageJoeShooting]

5 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

This part I have to admit is funny coming from someone who's been in the game for 4 months. It's unlikely you grasp what time or proficient even look like. 

 

IDPA requires lights to be hand held. FYI

I've been shooting for 20 years. I was in 3 gun prior to this. March was just my first uspsa match. Also I should add that I dryfire everyday and go to the range once a week and shoot a match 3 or 4 times a month. Anyone should know that just because you have fancy toys and expensive guns doesn't mean you can just pick an open racegun and get gm in a month. Just like anything in life it requires hard work, dedication, and patience.

[Racinready300ex]

8 minutes ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

I've been shooting for 20 years. I was in 3 gun prior to this. March was just my first uspsa match. Also I should add that I dryfire everyday and go to the range once a week and shoot a match 3 or 4 times a month. Anyone should know that just because you have fancy toys and expensive guns doesn't mean you can just pick an open racegun and get gm in a month. Just like anything in life it requires hard work, dedication, and patience.

 

Still not sure if it qualifies you to imply just because someone doesn't shoot open they must not want to put in the work to get good. But, at least you've got the attitude down for your division. You probably look good on the gram too.

[AverageJoeShooting]

1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Still not sure if it qualifies you to imply just because someone doesn't shoot open they must not want to put in the work to get good. But, at least you've got the attitude down for your division. You probably look good on the gram too.

well i mean it follows right?  prior to CO open was literally gated by money.  People who couldnt afford open guns couldnt hope to be competitive agianst them. Now with the inclusion of CO you can spend 600$ or less and pick up a gun and get the slide milled and your off to the races

 

people complain so they make a division that is more accessible

 

[Racinready300ex]

3 minutes ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

well i mean it follows right?  prior to CO open was literally gated by money.  People who couldnt afford open guns couldnt hope to be competitive agianst them. Now with the inclusion of CO you can spend 600$ or less and pick up a gun and get the slide milled and your off to the races

 

people complain so they make a division that is more accessible

 

 

Most people in this game can afford Open if they want to. In CO plenty of guys are dropping $1,500 on a gun, then getting the slide milled and the trigger done and brass grips and what ever else. You could get a open gun for about the same money if you wanted too. I think more people are jumping into CO over open because you don't have to reload. 

 

I've got a two Open guns sitting in the safe. So I could shoot Open by spending about 6 cents on powder instead of 3. Must be the money.

[AverageJoeShooting]

2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Most people in this game can afford Open if they want to. In CO plenty of guys are dropping $1,500 on a gun, then getting the slide milled and the trigger done and brass grips and what ever else. You could get a open gun for about the same money if you wanted too. I think more people are jumping into CO over open because you don't have to reload. 

 

I've got a two Open guns sitting in the safe. So I could shoot Open by spending about 6 cents on powder instead of 3. Must be the money.

Cost of ammo vs reloading is 100% a factor

[motosapiens]

4 hours ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

well i mean it follows right?  prior to CO open was literally gated by money.  People who couldnt afford open guns couldnt hope to be competitive agianst them.

 

meh. not so sure about the costs thing. cost of the gun is only a small fraction of the overall cost of competing (match fees, gas, hotels, time off from work, ammo, etc....) and open is only a 5-10% -ish advantage over limited or CO, depending on the stages. There are far more open shooters finishing behind me than in front of me at any given match.

 

I think alot of people (like me) don't shoot open because they just think it's dumb and impractical. I'm glad you like it, but it has zero interest for me. I'd rather improve my skills with practical guns.

Edited July 24, 2020 by motosapiens