Home defense AR pistol?

[jmac2112]

I've had the thought of building a 9mm AR pistol for home defense, because a) I like to build things and b) the world seems to be getting stupider by the day.  So a couple of questions:

 

1) Is this even a good idea?  Or would you stick with .223/300 BLK/12 gauge shotgun, etc.?  I already have an AR-15 and several 9mm pistols, but I was thinking that a (preferably suppressed) 9mm AR pistol would be an ideal way to defend the castle without blowing out my eardrums or risking over-penetration.  But I know that PCCs as a whole don't have the best reputation for reliability....

 

2) If what I'm contemplating doesn't seem ridiculous, what would be the must-have components?  Quarter Circle 10 and New Frontier Armory are the only brands I've looked into, except for passing out when I saw the price of JP receivers.   

 

I'll just leave it at that for now.

Thanks!

 

John

 

 

[Kokeman]

I've been completing doing the same thing. I don't like the idea of a 223/300 for home defense. A lot more unlikely to have a 9mm go through a couple walls and hit a neighbor. Especially with hollow points. 

I'm looking at the Taccom super feed 5.5 barrel to help with hollow point feeding. Most likely use New Frontier variant lower and mill spec upper. It will have an arm brace and Vortex Crossfire. With a 50000 hour battery life I would leave the sight on all the time. I will also mount a 206 laser on it. 

[hitman_usmc]

Depends on the ammo actually. Many times it’s the opposite. That’s one of several reasons why short barrels AR’s are used 99% of the time. All of our MP-5s and other subguns spend most of their time in the racks. 

[terrapin]

I thought about an AR in 45 ACP for the same reasons. Seemed like people have a hard time making them reliable. I think I’ll stay with my 300 BO shooting thin jacketed bullets. Once I got it gassed correctly, it has been extraordinarily reliable.

I don’t suppress my personal defense guns. If I need it, I wanna wake up the neighborhood


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[jmac2112]

Hitman,

 

Can you give me some context for your statements?  In what situation are short barrel ARs used 99% of the time?  

 

Thanks,

 

John

 

 

[chevrofreak]

I have a braced and suppressed 9mm AR that I pieced together for home defense.   I swapped in a Shooting Innovations ramped barrel and bolt and it is super reliable and fun to shoot. 

 

It sits next to a suppressed Kel Tec RDB.  Each has their own purpose. 

[Les Snyder]

I offer a couple of examples I put together for a truck gun, but would work for inside... I stayed with a 10.5 for the 5.56 to mitigate some of the blast.. the AR9 was built on my back up PSA (NFA billet) receiver ... I wanted a pinned front sight block if I ever needed an AR for defense...I don't use blades or braces... if interested just ask about specifics   regards Les  pic of the AR9

Edited August 7, 2020 by Les Snyder

[Les Snyder]

this pic of the 5.56 guns... the streamlined gas block is roll pinned

[grsdoug]

I put together a Spike's lower with the SBA3 brace and a Stern Defense conversion and Stern 8.5 inch upper for a home defense pistol. Using an Aimpoint T1, Crimson trace laser and light. I currently run Winchester 147 Silvertips, which are low recoil and low flash. Unless you run suppressed, pistol caliber works fine, look at the millions of subguns used effectively for decades.

[Ryan N]

I did one but SBR'd it.  5.5" QC10 upper with a 8.5" Odin Works hand guard that allows for a little bit longer reach and also allowing  a suppressor to go underneath it.  I swap the suppressor over to a fake can so I can shoot matches with it.  It's not the softest shooting PCC because its set up to run any ammo and not tuned to run a gammer load.  Bolt weight installed, 308 carbine spring, Blitzkrieg hydraulic buffer.  It can be a little gassy with the suppressor on but apparently that's something you gotta deal with when suppressed.  

 

FYI, I recently built a 4.5" AR22 pistol and think the SBA3 brace is hard to beat.  

 

The 512C works great on this set up.

 

[Ryan N]

Oh, one more thing.   My QC10 never ran 100% until I went 100% QC10.  I have 1000 rounds of a variety of ammo with zero malfunctions now.  I suspect you might do fine with the right combination of parts but working through getting mine to run was frustrating.  IMO I think it's important to match the lower, bolt and barrel from the same mfr.  

[NateTheSkate]

On 7/18/2020 at 7:45 PM, hitman_usmc said:

Depends on the ammo actually. Many times it’s the opposite. That’s one of several reasons why short barrels AR’s are used 99% of the time. All of our MP-5s and other subguns spend most of their time in the racks. 

My understanding is that the .223/5.66 bullet destabilizes when passing through a barrier, even if that barrier is just drywall. As a result, the bullet doesn't carry it's energy as far as one might expect. Consequently, something like a PCC is going to carry more of an overpenetration risk than an AR.

 

It sounds backwards, I know, but if you google it you will see that it has been tested over and over. There used to be an FBI report about overpenetration floating around, but I can't seem to find it now.

[BoyGlock]

If I am to stick w/ 9 or other pistol caliber ammo I would prefer it in pistol for portability and therefore maneuverability inside my home. Power-wise its still a pistol cal. in a pcc so Im just adding bulk and not much more. I dont see any advantage in pcc or AR pistols to justify its bulk vs hg potability in enclosed spaces. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by BoyGlock

[usmc1974]

If it's just for home defense, why not get a Glock 34 mos and put it in a CCA micro conversion kit/brace with 33 round Glock magazines. Looks really cool, and since it's a Glock it's going to run.

[NETim]

I don't know of too many firearms SD instructors who will tell you to pick a pistol over a rifle for HD.   

 

An AR with a 16" barrel in 5.56 is very difficult to beat for HD purposes.  

[BoyGlock]

7 minutes ago, NETim said:

An AR with a 16" barrel in 5.56 is very difficult to beat for HD purposes.  

Op said 9mm 

[NETim]

1 minute ago, BoyGlock said:

Op said 9mm 

I know he did.   I'd still pick a 5.56 over a 9mm.   I'd still pick a 16" AR in 5.56 over an AR pistol in 9mm.

[ltdmstr]

I can tell you from experience that firing a 223/556 sbr in a small room is most unpleasant.  And without hearing protection, chances are pretty good you're going to suffer some permanent damage.  With the right setup, a 9mm sbr should be ideal for this application.  Or if you like .45 ACP, there's LWRC SMG-45 (assuming you can find one, and don't mind the cost).

[usmc1974]

21 minutes ago, ltdmstr said:

I can tell you from experience that firing a 223/556 sbr in a small room is most unpleasant.  And without hearing protection, chances are pretty good you're going to suffer some permanent damage. 

And if it has a compensator on it it's going to be twice as loud. I shoot steel challenge, sometimes I watch these guys with their PCC carbines and you got a hold of timer real close to it.

[NateTheSkate]

6 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

With the right setup, a 9mm sbr should be ideal for this application.

Why would you go with 9mm over .223/5.56? The rifle is going to have better stopping power and, as previously stated, is LESS of an overpenetration issue than pistol calibers.

 

Firing an SBR in an enclosed space is always going to be unpleasant (to say the least) and will absolutely cause permanent ear damage. Shooting a rifle/shotgun outside is more than loud enough to cause permanent ear damage, and inside is going to be louder than outside. Even with a suppressor, firing supersonic ammunition is not "hearing safe".  My point being that unless you are shooting subsonic ammo, I don't think there would be much of a difference between .223/5.56 suppressed and 9mm suppressed;  they are both going to hurt, and are both going to cause permanent damage.  Now if we leave off the suppressor, it would be a different story.

 

The OP stated they would preferably suppress the weapon, and in this case I see no good reason not to go with .225/5.56.

Edited August 10, 2020 by NateTheSkate

[ltdmstr]

4 hours ago, NateTheSkate said:

Why would you go with 9mm over .223/5.56? The rifle is going to have better stopping power and, as previously stated, is LESS of an overpenetration issue than pistol calibers.

 

Firing an SBR in an enclosed space is always going to be unpleasant (to say the least) and will absolutely cause permanent ear damage. Shooting a rifle/shotgun outside is more than loud enough to cause permanent ear damage, and inside is going to be louder than outside. Even with a suppressor, firing supersonic ammunition is not "hearing safe".  My point being that unless you are shooting subsonic ammo, I don't think there would be much of a difference between .223/5.56 suppressed and 9mm suppressed;  they are both going to hurt, and are both going to cause permanent damage.  Now if we leave off the suppressor, it would be a different story.

 

The OP stated they would preferably suppress the weapon, and in this case I see no good reason not to go with .225/5.56.

 

Well to start, there's not a whole lot of 223/556 subsonic ammo out there.  Also size, weight and recoil is less with 9mm.  And all those factors are multiplied if you add a can since the 9mm package is going to be smaller, lighter and quieter.  And for the cherry on top, you can add the fact that your handgun is probably also going to be 9mm. 

[NateTheSkate]

4 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

 

Well to start, there's not a whole lot of 223/556 subsonic ammo out there.  Also size, weight and recoil is less with 9mm.  And all those factors are multiplied if you add a can since the 9mm package is going to be smaller, lighter and quieter.  And for the cherry on top, you can add the fact that your handgun is probably also going to be 9mm. 

Fair enough. I was assuming that you would be shooting supersonic ammo, and thus both would be loud.

 

Personally I would still go with the .223/5.56, but I guess we can agree to disagree.

 

If I ever had to shoot someone in my home, I think I would be so jacked on adrenaline I probably wouldn't even notice the noise, not until later anyway. I remember when I used to hunt waterfowl a lot, I could always tell when I was shooting at ducks that were out of range when the shots sounded loud; when the birds were close I was too excited to notice.

[RangerTrace]

Body armor is all too common these days, so if you're going to the trouble of building/buying an AR, do with a rifle cartridge.  This is my EDC backpack gun.  LANTAC LA-SF15, 7.5" 300BLK with their BMD.

[124gr9mm]

8 hours ago, NateTheSkate said:

Fair enough. I was assuming that you would be shooting supersonic ammo, and thus both would be loud.

 

Personally I would still go with the .223/5.56, but I guess we can agree to disagree.

 

If I ever had to shoot someone in my home, I think I would be so jacked on adrenaline I probably wouldn't even notice the noise, not until later anyway. I remember when I used to hunt waterfowl a lot, I could always tell when I was shooting at ducks that were out of range when the shots sounded loud; when the birds were close I was too excited to notice.

 

This is kind of where I land.

 

My pistols (obviously in pistol calibers) offer the easiest access in my home setup, and they're in place to allow me to get to my rifles/shotguns (depending on where I am in the house).

 

Pistol calibers can absolutely stop a bad guy, but they're not primary for me.

[zzt]

I have 9mm minor pistols, 9mm Open pistols, 40sw pistols, 45 ACP pistols and a 9mm PCC.  For the last two decades I kept the guns in one spot, ammo in a second and mags in a third.  I wanted to be absolutely sure there would never be an accident of some kind.  When the rioting was close I kept loaded mags next to the gun cases.  I loaded 9mm for pistol, three 40 round mags for the PCC and 45 mags.  Now that things have quieted down (locally), I keep my 4" XD in a compact GPS pouch along with four loaded mags.  I can snatch it up in an instant and move to wherever I need to be.    I prefer the maneuverability of a short pistol, over the PCC (even if it were SBR).  Plus, I can put the pistol in a pocket and use both hands if I need to.  If I had a small, striker fired 45, I'd use that instead.

 

FWIW, I would never consider 5.56 or 300 B for home defense.  IMO they are much too powerful, and the possibility of unintended consequences is much higher than pistol rounds.