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Sport Pistol vs American Select


ohsevenflhx
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Today I tested Alliant Sport Pistol and Alliant American Select. Top row is American Select , bottom row is Sport Pistol. Sport Pistol is definitely dirtier. Recoil impulse was sharper with Sport pistol. American Select 3.8gr for 129pf, Sport Pistol 4.0gr for 128pf. Both 124gr RMR 124 Match @ 1.128 OAL. Equal in accuracy at 50 feet, all test rounds into a 2"x2" piece of duct tape. Conclusion is American Select has a better recoil impulse, is cleaner, and uses less for comparable PF. 

IMG_20200718_124603.jpg

Edited by ohsevenflhx
Oal
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Today I tested Alliant Sport Pistol and Alliant American Select. Top row is American Select , bottom row is Sport Pistol. Sport Pistol is definitely dirtier. Recoil impulse was sharper with Sport pistol. American Select 3.8gr for 129pf, Sport Pistol 4.0gr for 128pf. Both 124gr RMR 124 Match @ 1.128 OAL. Equal in accuracy at 50 feet, all test rounds into a 2"x2" piece of duct tape. Conclusion is American Select has a better recoil impulse, is cleaner, and uses less for comparable PF. 
IMG_20200718_124603.thumb.jpg.863037d88495ee158a40e2384f9e61c1.jpg
What were you shooting these out of?

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38 minutes ago, Ben53 said:

I'm loading 3.2 grains of Sport Pistol behind 147 gr. Blue bullet in my TP9SFx for 129-130 pf.  Brass comes out of the pistol clean. 

I was actually surprised to see the brass so dirty. I normally use American Select and wanted to find a secondary backup powder. I bought 8lbs Sport Pistol. As I was trying experiment rounds I noticed how dirty the Sport Pistol brass were. I also didn't care for the sharp recoil compared to American Select. 

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6 minutes ago, Farmer said:

How does American Select compare to e3? I’ve seen both used and they both seem really close, just wondering. 

I used to use E3 also. I thing the accuracy is better with American Select. I had 8lbs of E3 that was running low and had 8lbs of American Select that I had bought on a whim last ammo shortage a couple years ago. I tried the American Select and really like it. 

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I think American Select is a superb powder for 12b shotshells and pistol.  I've only ever used in in 45ACP.  I can say the same about e3, except I have also used it for 40 major and minor and 9mm minor.  It is the most accurate and consistent for my 45 bullseye loads with SDs under 5.  I like Sport Pistol but have only tried it in 9mm so far.  I bought some because it is kind to coated bullets.

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I love both. I’ve spent a lot of time with American Select. Less with Sport Pistol; mostly 9mm and 38 special. I even have a 454 Casull load worked up with American Select.

In terms of accuracy I’d say they’re about equal.

Sport Pistol is a little dirtier. Not actually dirty. Just dirtier than American Select, which is the cleanest powder I’ve ever used.

In my experience, American Select has a greater flash and impulse than Sport Pistol, especially when you load a little hot.

Sport Pistol definitely meters better than American Select.

American Select is a little harder to ignite. I get much better results if i use a magnum primer in anything other than 9mm.


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I’ve been Thur about 20 lbs of sport pistol over the last couple of years and I really liked it with the exception of it being a little dirty burning imo. So I decided to try aa#2 and I ended up liking it more then sport pistol. Accuracy was the same and it was a lot cleaner ,the only negative is it makes a little bit of the corn meal looking stuff but its very minor. 

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This is not an accurate test on powder’s cleanliness. This shows what pressures do to brass. The higher the pressure, the more the brass expands in the chamber sealing from carbon flow back. 
 

If you loaded the SP the same weight as the AS, then this explains why you got dirtier result with the SP. two different powders with different burn rates.

 

SP likes to be loaded hot for clean burn. Heavy bullets with little powder is not ideal IMO. 

Edited by Agent #1911
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3 hours ago, Agent #1911 said:

This is not an accurate test on powder’s cleanliness. This shows what pressures do to brass. The higher the pressure, the more the brass expands in the chamber sealing from carbon flow back. 
 

If you loaded the SP the same weight as the AS, then this explains why you got dirtier result with the SP. two different powders with different burn rates.

 

SP likes to be loaded hot for clean burn. Heavy bullets with little powder is not ideal IMO. 

I loaded 3.8gr of American Select, and 4.0gr of Sport Pistol. So not the same weight charge for the power factor of about 130.  The Sport Pistol is dirtier.  I'm not going to "load up" untill Sport Pistol burns clean. 

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Just looking at the burn chart (I know) shows AS slightly faster than SP so that would make sense that less is more and a bit cleaner. What I find odd is that e3 is a fair amount faster but as most have stated is very similar to AS. I thought of trying both but thought the e3 might be a bit more peaky than the AS, sort of how Clays reacts. Am I incorrect in this thinking?

Edited by Farmer
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I loaded many thousands of 9mm with 4.0 to 4.2 g Sport Pistol under RMR 124g FMJs and Match Winners, and my cases do not look like that.  They sealed tight to the chamber and are free of soot.  Gun is average dirty, nothing odd.  This is in a few different guns of various brands.  Could the newer lots have changed?  I stil have 8lbs from a year ago. 

Edited by GMP
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Probably just enough pressure difference between the two to not get a decent case seal on that stepped Walther chamber.   I see the same mess with an HK at lower PF loads with ASP.  Sport Pistol is relatively clean at 130 or so  PF for me though.  Not N320 or N330 clean, but clean enough. 

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15 minutes ago, GMP said:

I loaded many thousands of 9mm with 4.0 to 4.2 g Sport Pistol under RMR 124g FMJs and Match Winners, and my cases do not look like that.  They sealed tight to the chamber and are free of soot.  Gun is average dirty, nothing odd.  This is in a few different guns of various brands.  Could the newer lots have changed?  I stil have 8lbs from a year ago. 

It might just be my gun. Like someone else mentioned, it's not expanding enough to seal off the chamber, funny how the American select is clean though.

 

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3 minutes ago, ohsevenflhx said:

It might just be my gun. Like someone else mentioned, it's not expanding enough to seal off the chamber, funny how the American select is clean though.

 

Try 4.2g.  Last year 4.0g was borderline PF.  But, I have dropped to 3.8g for Precision coated 125s with the same results.  Your cases remind me of a guy who shoots Titegroup.  His brass has that singed look to it.

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15 hours ago, ohsevenflhx said:

It might just be my gun. Like someone else mentioned, it's not expanding enough to seal off the chamber, funny how the American select is clean though.

 

Your velocity/pf is coming from average velocity. Your brass seal, or lack in this experiment is from PEAK pressure.
AS is faster burning than SP,,,,  to get same velocity you have to have the same average pressure. To get the same average from a faster powder you will have a higher PEAK,,, Sooo cleaner brass with the AS.
Thats why faster powders max out on velocity before slow powders. Average sends the bullet. Peak blows up the gun

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On 7/19/2020 at 4:08 PM, Farmer said:

Just looking at the burn chart (I know) shows AS slightly faster than SP so that would make sense that less is more and a bit cleaner. What I find odd is that e3 is a fair amount faster but as most have stated is very similar to AS. I thought of trying both but thought the e3 might be a bit more peaky than the AS, sort of how Clays reacts. Am I incorrect in this thinking?

I've found e3 to be very well mannered. Not like Clays at all when pressure starts getting up there. I've loaded into the PF 140s and the chrono numbers were still stable. Very linear. No experience here with SP, but I've loaded WST, Clays and Titegroup and e3 is far more linear than all of them.

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