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Focus on major?


gnappi
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I'm not by any stretch a new shooter, but I am just getting back into USPSA (mostly open and limited) and I'm wondering why so much focus on major 9? Granted a match win or shooter class upgrade in qualifiers can be made with just one point but isn't lower recoil of a lower power minor 9 going to be faster and easier to score more A's? 

 

 

 

 

 

  

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26 minutes ago, gnappi said:

9 going to be faster and easier to score more A's? 

 

It's not how many A you shoot but how man C. And that's why major wins. Look at it from that subtly different view point.

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I get the "C" issue, and winning or losing.

 

I've never been above "B" shooting major (did very well as a high B and actually was accused of sandbagging to win "B" which was not true, I just plateaued with a single stack .45 )  but I'm guessing the bulk of shooters are in B or C and may do as well or better shooting minor.

 

So maybe I should have said, why the focus on major for shooters in B/C class who may get better scores with an easier to handle minor gun? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Minor doesnt make you more accurate. It allows you to get away with sloppier second sight pictures and a bad grip. The D/C/B crowd is more likely to blast 2 shots off a single sight picture. Minor allows easier recoil, thus possibly better hits. The issue here isn't Major Vs minor but rather the skill set to actually "See what you need to see" instead of blasting without regard to your sight picture.

 

As you progress into A/M/GM, you cant just slap off 2 rounds without regard for accuracy. The top guys call every single shot, regardless of speed.

 

Math says Major is better than minor, unless you shoot 99% of points 100% of the time.

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With Major, you get to take advantage of the comp where Minor really doesn’t make efficient use of the comp. However, if you can shoot all As and not worry about using a comp, go for it. It’s been done over and over many times by several top shooters and Major wins in the end. 

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4 hours ago, gnappi said:

 isn't lower recoil of a lower power minor 9 going to be faster and easier to score more A's? 

 

No

 

I shoot the same or very close splits with major or minor in comped or non comped guns, with similar accuracy, yes with minor I can get away with a sloppier grip and with major I know I can get away with more Cs so will accept a lesser sight picture or aim off a hard cover or no shoot more. moral of the story is I don't shoot less As at major because of recoil its because I know I can get away with it. 

 

as a side note when I was a C shooter I would shoot .14-.16  splits regularly as a M/GM I can still shoot those splits but I rarely do on the clock because slower with better hits and faster transitions is whee its at. unless you shoot a .5 split at 7 yds and in you will not gain much of anything from speeding up your splits and splits are the only place that recoil matters 

 

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7 hours ago, gnappi said:

I get the "C" issue, and winning or losing.

 

I've never been above "B" shooting major (did very well as a high B and actually was accused of sandbagging to win "B" which was not true, I just plateaued with a single stack .45 )  but I'm guessing the bulk of shooters are in B or C and may do as well or better shooting minor.

 

So maybe I should have said, why the focus on major for shooters in B/C class who may get better scores with an easier to handle minor gun? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you're not wrong, many very small girls do choose minor, because they can score better with a kid's gun.

 

But seriously, if you actually practice you can shoot major just as fast and accurately as minor. The only time minor doesn't suck is on targets where there is only an alpha (zebra paper, or steel). OTOH, minor sucks disproportionately on other partials, because the major shooter can just aim for the middle of brown and pick up 2 charlies shooting at full-speed. Minor shooter gives up the equivalent of another half second if he does that. just on 1 target.... that adds up fast.

Edited by motosapiens
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Thanks all, your points all make sense. It's been quite a while since I shot and as soon as COVID restrictions open up sports I'll be shooting again.

 

Oh, the "Lord have mercy" type comments add more heat than light to a conversation than is necessary. 

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7 hours ago, gnappi said:

Thanks all, your points all make sense. It's been quite a while since I shot and as soon as COVID restrictions open up sports I'll be shooting again.

 

Oh, the "Lord have mercy" type comments add more heat than light to a conversation than is necessary. 

come to the south, we never closed shooting sports or ranges

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On 7/16/2020 at 9:55 AM, gnappi said:

I'm not by any stretch a new shooter, but I am just getting back into USPSA (mostly open and limited) and I'm wondering why so much focus on major 9? Granted a match win or shooter class upgrade in qualifiers can be made with just one point but isn't lower recoil of a lower power minor 9 going to be faster and easier to score more A's? 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

I saw another thread you may be sporting a new Domina.  Get a good gassy load up to 170+ pf and that gun may shoot flatter than minor.

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7 hours ago, Dan4147 said:

 

I saw another thread you may be sporting a new Domina.  Get a good gassy load up to 170+ pf and that gun may shoot flatter than minor.

No too rich for my blood,  If I had a Domina I wouldn't have started this thread!  Right now I have a Limited Custom with a V-12 on top. Given that the V12 has had some dicey past, I'll be shooting minor till I can upgrade 🙂

 

 

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13 hours ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

come to the south, we never closed shooting sports or ranges

I'm in South Florida, can't get much further south than this 🙂 But the local club hasn't posted matches since the COVID shutdowns started. Any South Florida Pistol Club shooters in here who can confirm any upcoming match dates? 

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9 hours ago, gnappi said:

I'm in South Florida, can't get much further south than this 🙂 But the local club hasn't posted matches since the COVID shutdowns started. Any South Florida Pistol Club shooters in here who can confirm any upcoming match dates? 

come to north carolina. all our clubs are still going just like they have been since feb

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I'm not going to get into the major/minor question.  I shoot both.  The notion that you cannot 'work' the comp with a minor load is just wrong.  I shoot 140 PF for steel and there is slightly LESS muzzle rise than with my major load.

 

The notion that you can simply hose targets with major is also wrong.  Sure speed counts for a lot in USPSA, but if you are not getting the points you will not be high in the standings.

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Personal experience, Major PF wins. I shot a match where the Chrono was running slow shot minor PF  buy .1(164.9) but minor none the less. 

I had just checked the PF the week before at 171 (several friends went way low but had inital PFs higher at around 175 so they made major).

Anyway, I was about 20 second slower than 1st and 2nd but had way less penalties and 50-60 more alphas. Because of the point loss of minor charlies, 

I finished 3rd. If I had chronoed major, I would have won 1st with no other changes.  

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On 7/16/2020 at 10:43 AM, gnappi said:

I get the "C" issue, and winning or losing.

 

I've never been above "B" shooting major (did very well as a high B and actually was accused of sandbagging to win "B" which was not true, I just plateaued with a single stack .45 )  but I'm guessing the bulk of shooters are in B or C and may do as well or better shooting minor.

 

So maybe I should have said, why the focus on major for shooters in B/C class who may get better scores with an easier to handle minor gun? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I see your line of reasoning but even if you have a 2:1 alpha to Charlie ratio, with a 120 rnd match You are now 40 points down. Do you think you can make up 40 points by shooting minor? 

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6 minutes ago, jnkill said:

I see your line of reasoning but even if you have a 2:1 alpha to Charlie ratio, with a 120 rnd match You are now 40 points down. Do you think you can make up 40 points by shooting minor? 

Nope. I haven't shot USPSA/IPSC since the 80s. I'm likely never going to be serious about it again but who knows. 

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29 minutes ago, jnkill said:

I see your line of reasoning but even if you have a 2:1 alpha to Charlie ratio, with a 120 rnd match You are now 40 points down. Do you think you can make up 40 points by shooting minor? 

 

successful shooters are typically shooting a bit better than 3:1 A/C ratio.

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21 hours ago, motosapiens said:

 

successful shooters are typically shooting a bit better than 3:1 A/C ratio.

 

This ^^^^.  And the Ms I shoot with are better than that.

Edited by zzt
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