Calming the dot

[FlightMurse]

I recently picked up a RMR to try out a dot on a sig x-carry. I am quickly learning why my accuracy was never what I wanted, that darn dot dances all over the place. I know this is a grip issue, but any tips to work on dry fire to settle the dot while going through the shot process? Thanks. 

[Racinready300ex]

If you're waiting for the dot to settle you're probably going to slow. When you see it dancing in the A it's time to send it. 

[Lastcat]

43 minutes ago, FlightMurse said:

I recently picked up a RMR to try out a dot on a sig x-carry. I am quickly learning why my accuracy was never what I wanted, that darn dot dances all over the place. I know this is a grip issue, but any tips to work on dry fire to settle the dot while going through the shot process? Thanks. 

 

It takes practice and time to do at first, but it's a steady trigger pull without movement. Get a sheet of paper, draw a 3" circle. At 10 yards practice. You'll see if your hits are off and how your trigger pull is (or isn't) working or your gun is not as accurate as needed. Once you start hitting inside that circle, speed up. 

[SGT_Schultz]

2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

If you're waiting for the dot to settle you're probably going to slow. When you see it dancing in the A it's time to send it. 

 

@FlightMurse Listen to this ^

[DKorn]

3 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

If you're waiting for the dot to settle you're probably going to slow. When you see it dancing in the A it's time to send it. 

Steve Anderson likes to say on his podcast that the dot is usually “a paintbrush and not a scalpel”. As long as all the movement is inside where you’re trying to hit, send it!

[terrapin]

I’m not an expert, but I’m going through the same thing (transition to a dot). Seeing the dot movement was really slowing me down because it was all over the A zone, occasionally out into the C zone. I’ve been finding that I need to be more target focused with both eyes open and only see the dot in my secondary vision... more akin to shooting a bow or a shotgun. Now my speed is coming back and I’m happy with the accuracy.


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[CClassForLife]

Look through the glass at the target. How much of the target is still within the optic window? At 5 yards and in, the SRO window is about the same size as the A-zone for me. This means I can literally pull the trigger as fast as I want as long as the dot remains inside that window. I don't care if it's streaking across, drawing star shapes, conjuring demons, or w/e. If there's even a hint of the red dot and my window is where I want it to be, I'm sending the shot.

 

Honestly, dry fire will help mostly with indexing on the red dot. How the dot moves according to your grip will only be observed in live fire.

[RangerTrace]

I've been struggling with this since January with DPP 2.5 MOA dots.  BJ Norris and I had a long conversation a few weeks ago and he suggested a larger dot.  The SRO with the 5 MOA dot seems to have helped.

[BARRYJ]

I had a guy tell me once that his dot looked like Tinker Bell on crack.

[SGT_Schultz]

On 7/15/2020 at 8:40 PM, terrapin said:

 I’ve been finding that I need to be more target focused with both eyes open and only see the dot in my secondary vision...

 

Yep.  Those who try and dot and say it sucks do so because

1. They have a poor draw and index
2. Try to use the dot like they use irons
3. Both

Some of them never grasp what you did.  Some never do.

[lgh]

On 7/15/2020 at 7:40 PM, terrapin said:

I’ve been finding that I need to be more target focused with both eyes open and only see the dot in my secondary vision...

Yes. RDS are great training tools but you kinda have to get used to them. Focus on the target. Don't "chase the dot" or "time the shot" relative to dot movement. Time and practice will reduce the dot movement but until then it's what you have to work with. Brian talks about this as it relates to irons.

[MikeBurgess]

when you switch to a red dot a lot of people look at the dot, don't!! Look at a spot on the target and let the dot come to where you are looking, as soon as it gets there send it. 

second out side of strict accuracy shooting if I see a dot I'm probably going too slow, you will find you are aiming with the end of a red streak, one of my guns has a DPP wit the triangle dot, if I notice its a triangle on any shot on a open target under 10 yards I know I'm not moving as quickly as I should.

[Malarky112]

Im following this because I am also having trouble transitioning to the dot.  Im def slower then I was with irons.

[SGT_Schultz]

3 hours ago, Malarky112 said:

Im following this because I am also having trouble transitioning to the dot.  Im def slower then I was with irons.

 

You have to unlearn almost everything you know about using your eyes to shoot a pistol.

[gnappi]

8 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

You have to unlearn almost everything you know about using your eyes to shoot a pistol.

 

I am finding this to be true.

 

[Malarky112]

9 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

You have to unlearn almost everything you know about using your eyes to shoot a pistol.

Seems to be the case.  Doesn't help that in my case I am also learning a new platform (came from Glock 34 iron sights to CZ Shadow with RD)

[IVC]

Dancing dot is the same as dancing iron sights, you are just finally noticing it. It's not a problem for the irons and it's not a problem for the dot, you just have to understand what the dot is telling you, much like you had to understand what the iron sights were telling you. 

[SGT_Schultz]

3 hours ago, IVC said:

Dancing dot is the same as dancing iron sights, you are just finally noticing it. It's not a problem for the irons and it's not a problem for the dot, you just have to understand what the dot is telling you, much like you had to understand what the iron sights were telling you. 

That's certainly true, but it's only a piece of the puzzle.  How we focus and where we focus is completely different.  I know you know that but I keep mentioning it because I think more people struggle with this focus issue than they care to admit.  Many don't know that they need to focus differently so they can't figure out why they're still slow.

[IVC]

Yup, agreed. There are two issues - one is that the red dot shows clearly how unstable the gun is even if one is not as observant with iron sights, and the other is that the shooting itself changes because of different focus. 

 

I would compare the first issue with shooting a scoped rifle with extreme magnification where one suddenly observes crosshairs all over the place. The rifle is as stable as with lower magnification, but the observed movement is much larger and will mess with our perception if we don't know how to read it. The second issue is only in action shooting, where the dot allows proper target focus which in turn allows higher speed, but comes at the cost of having to retrain on how the targets are acquired.

 

Shooting red dots at static distant/hard targets in bullseye mode only produces the "dancing dot" problem for those who are not used to it. The focus issue is specific to the action shooting sports. 

[Cuz]

 
You have to unlearn almost everything you know about using your eyes to shoot a pistol.

That’s easier said than done, especially if we want to shoot both.


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[tkheard]

Spend some time shooting groups with your dot. Understand that it will never be still.

[SGT_Schultz]

53 minutes ago, Cuz said:

That’s easier said than done, especially if we want to shoot both.


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Be that as it may, it is what needs to be done.

 

Personally, I've been shooting target focus for close to ten years with irons since presbyopia started setting in.  So the transition has been pretty seamless.

Edited July 22, 2020 by SGT_Schultz

[gnappi]

I've shot large tube LED dots before but they're nothing like the current generation. Yesterday was my first time at the range with a micro dot and other than needing more training for the slow first sight picture acquisition I'm impressed. Funny my eyes are still 20-30 without any type of astigmatism, or near/far sighted issues but the dot comes to the POA much faster. 

 

My 25-30 ft slow fire groups are better (most all touching) with the dot as opposed to iron sights, and rapid fire is substantially better. I just may get one for more another Tanfo.

 

 

[ming]

40 minutes ago, gnappi said:

I've shot large tube LED dots before but they're nothing like the current generation. Yesterday was my first time at the range with a micro dot and other than needing more training for the slow first sight picture acquisition I'm impressed. Funny my eyes are still 20-30 without any type of astigmatism, or near/far sighted issues but the dot comes to the POA much faster. 

 

My 25-30 ft slow fire groups are better (most all touching) with the dot as opposed to iron sights, and rapid fire is substantially better. I just may get one for more another Tanfo.

 

 

 

My groups with a dot are also tighter than with irons.  However I'm still not as fast out of the holster with the dot but I'm getting there.

[AZ1911]

On 7/15/2020 at 1:36 PM, Racinready300ex said:

If you're waiting for the dot to settle you're probably going to slow. When you see it dancing in the A it's time to send it. 

This is exactly what I have been trying to do. I can get the dot to stay still but it wastes way to much time. Learning to get it in the A zone and just going with it works!