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National Match Division Shooter Recognition


dwzuspsa
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I have requested the Area 5 director to ask the board to change the prize table and recognition of D,C,B,A, G and AM catagories-this would change the way the prize table is handed out.  Basically th top finisher in GM thru D Class would be recognized as National Champions and go to the prize table in that order followed by the 2nd , 3rd and son  on finishers.  This would mean that USPSA would have to tighten up the Classifier System on the local level so the sand baggers could not go to larger matches just to move higher up the prize table .  I also asked them to consider disbanding the Super Squad at National Matches-they are Manufacturers Representatives and should be out among the common shooter....My goal is to bring USPSA back to the D thru a that support the sport and give them the recognition they deserve!

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As a former 'C class national champion',  this is obviously a troll thread by russian or north korean agent. This is pretty much the worst idea ever.

 

My goal is for D shooters to practice and get better, so they can get the recognition they deserve.

Edited by motosapiens
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How does prize distribution to the top shooters only bring the sport back to the D thru A shooter? The bulk of match fees doesn't come from the top  competitors of each division. With 150 shooters, 7 divisions, and 21 prizes to be given out, you have just excluded 129 people from any chance of winning anything. Not to mention the $16125 dollars that they would have paid for the match. So why would the "average shooter" want to pay for a match with zero chance of a prize? Sand baggers are not going away. They are a joke. I have no respect for them. They will find a way to weasel any system. I have watched shooters step out of bounds and fire shots, purposely shoot the no shoots, and even watched one go through every mag on there belt pretending that they forgot to reload their mags until they got to the last mag and finish the classifier. Yet wins c class at every sanctioned match. Look I agree this sport is supported by average joe shooter. Without them USPSA wouldnt exist. I just dont see how your plan keeps them shooting.

 

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36 minutes ago, dwzuspsa said:

This would mean that USPSA would have to tighten up the Classifier System on the local level so the sand baggers could not go to larger matches just to move higher up the prize table . 

And just how the Hell do you propose that would work? What mechanism would YOU suggest?

C'mon. . .you raised the issue. Suggest a solution.

 

As for disbanding the Super Squad(s), do you like seeing them on TV? I sure do. You want to make Jim and John Scouttens job so difficult that you will never see them again?

 

Pfttt....   

 

 

 

 

DFTT

 

 

 

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If the primary motivation for the “average shooter” to stay motivated or involved with USPSA is to get free random prizes off of a major match prize table then they should simply not attend the major and use that Match fee and travel expense money to buy whatever they dreamed of getting off of a prize table. They would have a much better chance of actually getting something they want as well. 
 

This goes along the same lines as giving everyone a participation trophy simply to make sure nobody feels left out. Suck it up butter cup, in reality there are winners and losers. The number of losers is always going to be the majority when playing games where performance is measured. You want to be rewarded for performance, then perform better and earn a reward. And no, a class or category win isn’t a “Win”. It’s a participation trophy.

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8 hours ago, dwzuspsa said:

I have requested the Area 5 director to ask the board to change the prize table and recognition of D,C,B,A, G and AM catagories-this would change the way the prize table is handed out.  Basically th top finisher in GM thru D Class would be recognized as National Champions and go to the prize table in that order followed by the 2nd , 3rd and son  on finishers.  This would mean that USPSA would have to tighten up the Classifier System on the local level so the sand baggers could not go to larger matches just to move higher up the prize table .  I also asked them to consider disbanding the Super Squad at National Matches-they are Manufacturers Representatives and should be out among the common shooter....My goal is to bring USPSA back to the D thru a that support the sport and give them the recognition they deserve!

If anybody has access to the 1998 Limited Nationals match book, I think you will find that what you are proposing is very similar to the prize distribution system used that year. The only solution to your specific issues is to get rid of prize tables.

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10 hours ago, dwzuspsa said:

Basically th top finisher in GM thru D Class would be recognized as National Champions and go to the prize table in that order followed by the 2nd , 3rd and son  on finishers.  This would mean that USPSA would have to tighten up the Classifier System on the local level so the sand baggers could not go to larger matches just to move higher up the prize table .

This would actually increase sandbagging, not decrease it.  A shooter would stay in D(or other class) vs move up so they can "win" D(or other class) and get to the prize table earlier vs 87th.  Horrible idea as already stated. 

Edited by echotango
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I’d support doing away with the prize table and lower the match fee. I’ve gotten some nice stuff off tables, but I’d just buy it if I wanted it. I bet match directors would welcome not having to bug vendors for table schwag. How much could we save from the average Sectional match entry fee if we did away with the prize table?

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9 minutes ago, OPENB said:

I’d support doing away with the prize table and lower the match fee. I’ve gotten some nice stuff off tables, but I’d just buy it if I wanted it. I bet match directors would welcome not having to bug vendors for table schwag. How much could we save from the average Sectional match entry fee if we did away with the prize table?

I should write a book on this.😂 Most people like me and OPENB feel the same way. But there is a significant number of people who go absolutely insane when they don’t get something off a prize table. Because I like to have a quality prize table I literally spend months and send out hundreds of requests for sponsorship each and every year. It is easily the most time consuming part of the process of putting on a MAJOR match.

  

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14 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

If the primary motivation for the “average shooter” to stay motivated or involved with USPSA is to get free random prizes off of a major match prize table then they should simply not attend the major and use that Match fee and travel expense money to buy whatever they dreamed of getting off of a prize table. They would have a much better chance of actually getting something they want as well. 
 

This goes along the same lines as giving everyone a participation trophy simply to make sure nobody feels left out. Suck it up butter cup, in reality there are winners and losers. The number of losers is always going to be the majority when playing games where performance is measured. You want to be rewarded for performance, then perform better and earn a reward. And no, a class or category win isn’t a “Win”. It’s a participation trophy.

 

This. 

 

And the proposed system wouldn't fix the sandbag issue anyway. It'd just make it worse. 

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15 hours ago, dwzuspsa said:

  I also asked them to consider disbanding the Super Squad at National Matches-they are Manufacturers Representatives and should be out among the common shooter....My goal is to bring USPSA back to the D thru a that support the sport and give them the recognition they deserve!

I'll skip the first point as its been pretty well beat.

 

I believe the super squad is a good thing and needs to be continued.

 

First, putting the shooters with the documented best shot at winning the match on the same squad means they all have as close to the same match as possible, if they are shooting a stage into the sun they all shoot it into the sun, if the stage with all the hard partials is shot bagged in the wind and rain they all shoot it bagged. 

 

Second, earning their way onto and keeping their slot on the super squad can be a pretty big motivator for the shooters that are very good but may not realistically be in the battle for the win, kinda like the top 16 shoot off used to be now the top 12 earn a slot on the SS for next nationals.

 

Tenth, easier video of the top competitors.

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

I'll skip the first point as its been pretty well beat.

 

I believe the super squad is a good thing and needs to be continued.

 

First, putting the shooters with the documented best shot at winning the match on the same squad means they all have as close to the same match as possible, if they are shooting a stage into the sun they all shoot it into the sun, if the stage with all the hard partials is shot bagged in the wind and rain they all shoot it bagged. 

 

Second, earning their way onto and keeping their slot on the super squad can be a pretty big motivator for the shooters that are very good but may not realistically be in the battle for the win, kinda like the top 16 shoot off used to be now the top 12 earn a slot on the SS for next nationals.

 

Tenth, easier video of the top competitors.

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed.  Plus if you are a top competitor and have to shoot with tards it might screw up your game, add in that the next top competitor might by on a squad with several m class shooters and they could have a distinct advantage.  While being a tard that would like to shoot with a top GM, I don't think it is fair to saddle the top GM with my tardness...

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I love it when people have rant posts asking for major changes to processes they have no clue about why they are currently functioning that way in the first place. If being dumb was painful, there would be a lot less "Dumb" going around.

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I love it when people have rant posts asking for major changes to processes they have no clue about why they are currently functioning that way in the first place. If being dumb was painful, there would be a lot less "Dumb" going around.
Homaygad [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji378][emoji378][emoji378][emoji378]

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

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5 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

I love it when people have rant posts asking for major changes to processes they have no clue about why they are currently functioning that way in the first place. If being dumb was painful, there would be a lot less "Dumb" going around.

Cha-Lee for president (of USPSA that is)

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2 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

I love it when people have rant posts asking for major changes to processes they have no clue about why they are currently functioning that way in the first place. If being dumb was painful, there would be a lot less "Dumb" going around.

Sofa king savage.  i love this

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Get rid of classification awards totally and just trophy for 1-3 overall. Zero prize table so I don't have to bother selling it.

 

No prize table. No match shirt. No match lunch. Yes to great trophies for top 3 overall in each division. 

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31 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

Get rid of classification awards totally and just trophy for 1-3 overall. Zero prize table so I don't have to bother selling it.

 

No prize table. No match shirt. No match lunch. Yes to great trophies for top 3 overall in each division. 

i think this is a good idea. but i also think it's a good idea to have a deep prize table and go in order of division finish. 

of course I also think it's a great idea to have a deep prize table and do a random draw.

I also like it when there are no trophies whatsoever, but especially no cheesy ones.

 

pretty much, I appreciate the variety we have now. It's one of the good things about the sport.

 

but I don't want to give back my c class national champion plaque...... (in L10, worse yet!).

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19 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

This goes along the same lines as giving everyone a participation trophy simply to make sure nobody feels left out. Suck it up butter cup, in reality there are winners and losers. The number of losers is always going to be the majority when playing games where performance is measured. You want to be rewarded for performance, then perform better and earn a reward. And no, a class or category win isn’t a “Win”. It’s a participation trophy.

 

5 hours ago, Sarge said:

I should write a book on this.😂 Most people like me and OPENB feel the same way. But there is a significant number of people who go absolutely insane when they don’t get something off a prize table. Because I like to have a quality prize table I literally spend months and send out hundreds of requests for sponsorship each and every year. It is easily the most time consuming part of the process of putting on a MAJOR match.

  

 

Actually I think the prize table IS the average shooters participation trophy without being called a participation trophy.  The shooter can honestly say they won this or that at XYZ Nationals even if it is only a recoil spring pack.  Plus there is some anticipation, a little suspense about am I going to get something I really want or am I going to be re-gifting it to my brother or some club fun match.

 

Nolan

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