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Laser for a PCC?


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I too have the green Crimson Trace on my PCCs. I can’t remember the last time I actually used it.

I did have a stage a month ago at the Montana sectional where I considered using it for a hard left lean. I ended up switching shoulders between positions to make the shots. Two alpha.

So no, I don’t think the laser is necessary.

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At our last match we had a low port, actually under the wall, we had to shoot through for two close targets in the middle of the array. Being 6'5" and 70 squatting down there just wasn't going to happen. But bending down and using the laser got me 4 As without a loss of time. So for me it was necessary.

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Back when I was shooting more, I had a green 206 and I used it all of the time. I know that this will be subjective, but I had my set up to where the green dot was just under my red dot on my optic. It seemed to draw my eye quicker to the aiming point. Maybe just me, but it worked out very well for me. I noticed mine even in bright day light.

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Obviously like any alternative sighting system, it is for special cases. The one thing I will say is that for 2 out of the 3 of the below scenarios, require a LOT of practice IMO. Unless you have practice time to spare, you may not benefit from having a laser.
 

1. Very awkward positions it might give you a sight picture where a red dot would not. This does still require some practice to be quick but you might not have the option of the red dot anyway.

 

2. If you are moving very fast, mounting the gun to your shoulder would actually result in even greater dot movement. So just float the gun in front of you and shoot. This is perhaps the only situation where it's intuitive and doesn't need to be trained for as much. Like close targets that you are running past.

 

3. Hip shots from start position. This requires a LOT of practice. Not the initial shots of course on a single target, but getting it faster when engaging multiple targets at the start position. You have two options here and it requires decent practice for both. One is to hip shot all of the targets in front of you, that takes a LOT of practice, and funny enough, the better you get at it, the less you actually need the laser. Because paradoxically, to see where a laser transitions to, your hip aiming must be pretty good to begin with to get the laser to where you are looking anyway. The other is taking the first target with two shots from the hip, mounting and aiming at the second target instead of transitioning, this saves time in theory, but your natural instinct will be to look dumbfounded at your initial hip shots for about .5S before mounting for the second target. Your target for 2 targets, should be to be able to engage 2 targets in perhaps the time it takes for engaging a single target + the time of a split. Transitions and splits from hipfire are very slow initially. My cut off is no more than 3 hip fired targets before mounting would have been better on speed, but certainly no more than 2 when considering hit factor since accuracy with hip fire might not be so good depending on distance of course. My personal bread and butter start position is two targets under 7 yards with the ability to face the targets unhindered stock on belt.

You also need to factor in a little training to shoot normally with the laser on. It can be a tad confusing having two dots in your window and not get distracted and having it slow you down.

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As a short, old guy with bad knees, it comes in handy on hard leans to the left, over high walls (4' wall with targets on the ground), and low ports.

As a relatively new PCC shooter, 6 matches, I also use it to make sure I'm not going to shoot walls that are down range on hard leans.  I'm still learning the spatial awareness required when the muzzle is 7-8" from you weak hand instead of 2-3" with a pistol.

 

At the recommendation of shooters here, I also have a CMR-206.

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I had a CM green 206 mounted on a pcc. It wasn't for me. The only time I thought it to be an advantage was on the buzzer when there was steel that could be shot from the hip. I had a hard time picking up the laser on any shots farther than about 10 yard. Ended up spending more time trying to find the laser than just bumping the rifle to the other shoulder.  I ended up just putting it on my home defense gun. 

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8 hours ago, PigSnowball said:

Obviously like any alternative sighting system, it is for special cases. The one thing I will say is that for 2 out of the 3 of the below scenarios, require a LOT of practice IMO. Unless you have practice time to spare, you may not benefit from having a laser.
 

1. Very awkward positions it might give you a sight picture where a red dot would not. This does still require some practice to be quick but you might not have the option of the red dot anyway.

 

2. If you are moving very fast, mounting the gun to your shoulder would actually result in even greater dot movement. So just float the gun in front of you and shoot. This is perhaps the only situation where it's intuitive and doesn't need to be trained for as much. Like close targets that you are running past.

 

3. Hip shots from start position. This requires a LOT of practice. Not the initial shots of course on a single target, but getting it faster when engaging multiple targets at the start position. You have two options here and it requires decent practice for both. One is to hip shot all of the targets in front of you, that takes a LOT of practice, and funny enough, the better you get at it, the less you actually need the laser. Because paradoxically, to see where a laser transitions to, your hip aiming must be pretty good to begin with to get the laser to where you are looking anyway. The other is taking the first target with two shots from the hip, mounting and aiming at the second target instead of transitioning, this saves time in theory, but your natural instinct will be to look dumbfounded at your initial hip shots for about .5S before mounting for the second target. Your target for 2 targets, should be to be able to engage 2 targets in perhaps the time it takes for engaging a single target + the time of a split. Transitions and splits from hipfire are very slow initially. My cut off is no more than 3 hip fired targets before mounting would have been better on speed, but certainly no more than 2 when considering hit factor since accuracy with hip fire might not be so good depending on distance of course. My personal bread and butter start position is two targets under 7 yards with the ability to face the targets unhindered stock on belt.

You also need to factor in a little training to shoot normally with the laser on. It can be a tad confusing having two dots in your window and not get distracted and having it slow you down.

Great info! Thanks.

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I have a CMR-206 on mine. I use it mostly as a hand stop for the SBR and don’t turn it on, but my son used it once when the Holosun sight was too dim to see. The auto brightness setting doesn’t work when shooting from a dark house into sunlight. He just hit the laser and kept shooting. 

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I run a green Crimson Trace. 99.9% of the time it’s a hand guard ornament. It’s there if I ever need it. Low light situations or close targets with weird angle ports, etc. I have used it once at a start position where the PCC could be aimed with start stock on belt start. From the first target was a transition to the second with slight foot movement so mountaing the PCC after the first shot really didn’t add any time to the transition/course of fire. They are allowed to be used by the rules so I have zero issue in using one if the situation makes sense. 

 

The green laser also differs from the red dot so there is zero confusion when engaging targets through the red dot when the laser is on. The laser is zeroed at 7 yds.  I don’t see using it for targets at longer distances due to the fact of seeing the laser out to those distances is pretty low. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've seen a few people use them at matches. They are not used often but when they are it seems the shooter is very glad they had it. Hard lean weak side shot, etc. I've also seen a guy use it on the beep. Had it pointed on a steel target that was visible from the start buzzer went off and bang, steel went down. I am still looking into which model I want to put on my JP.

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  • 1 month later...

CT206 user here, I'm not aware of a better laser system for our sport. Sighted in at ~7y and my main+offset dots at ~20. 

 

It's just another tool you can integrate into your style of shooting, people like them for hard leans but long-range hard leans make the laser pretty difficult to see depending on ambient light, an offset optic would probably be a better choice, or simply practicing switching hands and using your main optic. Personally I find lasers are most helpful with open targets within 10y where I just want to quickly point-shoot and not worry about completely mounting the rifle.

 

If you film yourself, you'll also get to see exactly where your muzzle was pointed when you pull the trigger, which can be helpful if you're trying to diagnose poor hits.  

Edited by ToneEasy
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