two string stage - picking mag up off the ground

[IHAVEGAS]

12 minutes ago, waktasz said:

I think in the future I will just have the shooter or someone on the squad grab it if the shooter wants it moved. Then it's not on the RO and there is no potential for issues. At nats when this stage was run for the first time we were grabbing them off the ground for each other. 

 

That is the way we did it on this one last month, except we just removed the crap on the ground for every shooter and the shooter did most of it. Given the restricted path and number of rounds (mags) potentially involved I do not think there was a practical alternative. 

 

Stage 5A 2.pdf

[RJH]

2 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

That is the way we did it on this one last month, except we just removed the crap on the ground for every shooter and the shooter did most of it. Given the restricted path and number of rounds (mags) potentially involved I do not think there was a practical alternative. 

 

Stage 5A 2.pdf 122.05 kB · 10 downloads

Pretty sure that stage is illegal,  so it may be the best example 

[IHAVEGAS]

Just now, RJH said:

Pretty sure that stage is illegal

 

Why?

[RJH]

13 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Why?

Multiple strings have be standards, standards have to be fixed time or Virginia count only, no Steel in Virginia count. Also don't know how you could specify no stacking on a Comstock course. That's going kind of from memory and that's why I said I'm pretty sure that's illegal and not a hundred percent sure. But anyway you could look it up and see

[IHAVEGAS]

21 minutes ago, RJH said:

Multiple strings have be standards,

 

1.2.2.1 defines "Special Courses of fire" deemed to be "Standard Exercises" , "Standard Exercises" is not defined in the glossary and I really do not know if there is any feature of standards exercises that is supposed to be excluded from the other types of field courses. 

 

Under 1.2.1.3 "General courses of fire" - "Long Courses" - I do not see any indication that the number of strings is limited for long courses.

 

Not arguing, just do not know what the answer is. Typically the answer is that if it does not specifically state something can not be done then you are good to go. 

[RJH]

16 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

1.2.2.1 defines "Special Courses of fire" deemed to be "Standard Exercises" , "Standard Exercises" is not defined in the glossary and I really do not know if there is any feature of standards exercises that is supposed to be excluded from the other types of field courses. 

 

Under 1.2.1.3 "General courses of fire" - "Long Courses" - I do not see any indication that the number of strings is limited for long courses.

 

Not arguing, just do not know what the answer is. Typically the answer is that if it does not specifically state something can not be done then you are good to go. 

You have to start with 6.1.1 to find out when 2 strings are allowed then look at 1.2.2.1 which defines how a standard exercise must be scored (Virginia or timed), your stage can't be Virginia because of steel.  

 

Now that I had time to look at the rule book, it is for sure illegal 

[driver8M3]

6.1.1 – String – A separately timed component of a stage. Except for Standard Exercises (see 1.2.2.1), a stage will be considered a single string. Scores and penalties are recorded following completion of the course of fire, unless the course of fire specifies that they shall be recorded, and the targets taped between strings. The time component of all strings will be totaled, and the results achieved are then tallied to produce a final stage result.

6.1.2 – Stage – A separately timed and scored component of a match.

There are also various other mentions of strings in the rules (5.7.4, 5.7.6, 8.3.6.1) and it's clear that only standard exercises can have separate strings.

 ______________________________

If it had been run/scored as two separate stages (which is essentially how it was run, but not scored) with separate WSBs, it would have been fine.

[IHAVEGAS]

9 minutes ago, RJH said:

You have to start with 6.1.1

 

Good enough  .

 

I suppose that the stage in question could be shot and scored as two stages and then be legal. Will pass that one on. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by IHAVEGAS

[IVC]

Very interesting topic - not just with multiple strings, but also withing a single string. Don't touch the magazines on the ground until the end of COF, whether you're an RO or a fellow competitor...

[RJH]

6 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Good enough  .

 

I suppose that the stage in question could be shot and scored as two stages and then be legal. Will pass that one on. 

 

Yep, I think 2 stages would have been fine