Which one is more accurate ? Truncated Cone, Flat Nose or Round Nose in 9mm.

[missed it by that much]

Rifles have no place in a pistol competition.
 
Also my statement reads "for action pistol competition"

Action pistol is actually bianchi style shooing which has 12 shots at 50 yards on the practical. Cheap bullets don't generally shine at 50 such as plated which really aren't that cheap.

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[AverageJoeShooting]

5 minutes ago, missed it by that much said:

Action pistol is actually bianchi style shooing which has 12 shots at 50 yards on the practical. Cheap bullets don't generally shine at 50 such as plated which really aren't that cheap.

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thats why i followed the statement with "specifically uspsa or idpa".......

[missed it by that much]

My bag must've missed that like most of my targets [emoji849]

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[ohsevenflhx]

My own experience with a Walther PPQ Q5 Match SF is 124 gr plated round nose group was softball to tennis ball size groups at 25 yards freestyle, and 124 gr fmj truncated cone flat point with same power factor and OAL gave me tennis ball to golf ball size groups. Not scientific but good enough for me to change over to fmj truncated cone flat point. These were both shot standing and shooting free style with no outside support.

[4n2t0]

10 hours ago, ohsevenflhx said:

My own experience with a Walther PPQ Q5 Match SF is 124 gr plated round nose group was softball to tennis ball size groups at 25 yards freestyle, and 124 gr fmj truncated cone flat point with same power factor and OAL gave me tennis ball to golf ball size groups. Not scientific but good enough for me to change over to fmj truncated cone flat point. These were both shot standing and shooting free style with no outside support.

 

That has more to do with the construction of the bullet than the shape of it's nose.

[4n2t0]

15 hours ago, lll Otto lll said:

 The OP wasn't taking a poll on reliability....

 

Maybe but that's the only difference worth discussing.

[superdude]

There is a article that looks at the accuracy of 38 different 9mm factory loads in a pistol mounted in a Ransom Rest.  A side test compared the accuracy of round nose bullets to those of flat nose (flat point, hollow point) bullets and found that flat nose bullets statistically produced smaller groups than the round nose bullets. The results apply only to that gun and to the ammo tested, but some folks might find it of interest. 

 

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/1/18/38-different-9mm-loads

 

 

[Yagi]

3 hours ago, superdude said:

There is a article that looks at the accuracy of 38 different 9mm factory loads in a pistol mounted in a Ransom Rest.  A side test compared the accuracy of round nose bullets to those of flat nose (flat point, hollow point) bullets and found that flat nose bullets statistically produced smaller groups than the round nose bullets. The results apply only to that gun and to the ammo tested, but some folks might find it of interest. 

 

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/1/18/38-different-9mm-loads

 

 

Awesome read.

 

 

[IHAVEGAS]

18 hours ago, Yagi said:

Awesome read.

 

 

 

Interesting. 

Eyeballing data, I think the gun showed a definite preference for heavy bullets which biased the results as bullet weight was not correlated with results. 

Would also like to see a measure of consistency rather than just group size, i.e. I would like to know if the number of fliers tended to be about the same. 

 

[HesedTech]

I've read that article and similar ones before, they seem to points out one very important factor for accuracy, the base of bearing surface of the bullet.

 

In subsonic rounds the nose makes very little difference in the bullet trajectory. What does make a difference is the size and consistency of the base/bearing surface of bullet and FP tend to have more area to stabilize and spin the bullet up as it leaves the barrel. It also seems that twist rate makes a difference in the weight of the bullet. A faster twist rate favors heavier and a slower lighter. This is more easily seen in rifles where the distances are far longer. 

 

So it makes sense, considering just accuracy, a FP of a given weight should be a bit more accurate than a RN. However inside 25 yards for action shooting it really doesn't matter. 

[lll Otto lll]

7 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Interesting. 

Eyeballing data, I think the gun showed a definite preference for heavy bullets which biased the results as bullet weight was not correlated with results.

 
Probably because the test barrel was a Kart which are usually 1:16 twist as opposed to the more common 1:10.  I read that same article last year but took it with a grain of salt.

Edit to add that I bought a case of the Browning 147g. BPT on a Brownells clearance sale and it was indeed accurate...but a little snappy.  Browning ammo is actually made by Winchester and has been discontinued.

Edited July 10, 2020 by lll Otto lll

[AHI]

On 7/10/2020 at 5:47 PM, lll Otto lll said:

 
Probably because the test barrel was a Kart which are usually 1:16 twist as opposed to the more common 1:10.  I read that same article last year but took it with a grain of salt.

Edit to add that I bought a case of the Browning 147g. BPT on a Brownells clearance sale and it was indeed accurate...but a little snappy.  Browning ammo is actually made by Winchester and has been discontinued.

1:10 is faster twist than 1:16 . 1:10 should favor heaver (longer) bullets than 1:16.   In theory.    

[Yagi]

On 7/12/2020 at 7:59 AM, AHI said:

1:10 is faster twist than 1:16 . 1:10 should favor heaver (longer) bullets than 1:16.   In theory.    

 

There is a lot of Bullseye Shooters that use Kart Barrels, right?

[AHI]

3 hours ago, Yagi said:

 

There is a lot of Bullseye Shooters that use Kart Barrels, right?

Kart 45acp

KKM 9MM        1:32 twist

this is what most Bullseye Shooters use.

[HesedTech]

7 minutes ago, AHI said:

Kart 45acp

KKM 9MM        1:32 twist

this is what most Bullseye Shooters use.

 

Our you sure its 1:32? KKM's sight doesn't state the twist rate, but all the info on the internet says the use 1:16. 1:32 would be really slow.

 

 

[AHI]

1;32 is for 115/125 gr bullets only  and  KKM is the preferred  manufacture 

[HesedTech]

7 minutes ago, AHI said:

1;32 is for 115/125 gr bullets only  and  KKM is the preferred  manufacture 

115/125 45 ACP is really light (for the slow twist rate). I assume they push them at a very high velocity with that barrel twist.  

 

Learn something new every day.

[AHI]

go read the post again     45 acp Bulls eye shooters use Kart 1:16

                                             9MM     Bullseye  shooters use KKM 1:32

Don't know were you got 45acp  1:32 or 115/125 45 cal bullets.

This all started because   OTTO thought 1;16 would shoot heaver bullets better than 1:10

1:16 was Kart and(Barsto)a few others stab at making 115/125 9mm bullets more accurate.

This is a 9mm thread.      I answered the question that was asked about what barrels Bullseye shooters

use.   Any thing else?                                                 Dam I need another cup of coffee.

Edited July 13, 2020 by AHI

[RGA]

On 7/10/2020 at 8:31 PM, HesedTech said:

consistency of the base

 

That's the most influential variable in my mind, considering all other things equal. A jacketed (or properly plated) bullet with a consistent, closed base like a Hornady XTP, Lapua CEPP or a Speer Gold Dot almost  always seems to outperform other bullet styles in my experience (9 and 45 pistols). That's a general observation that always seems to return over the 27 years I have been reloading and swaging my own jacketed bulllets. This also goes for jacketed rifle bullets I swage (.224 and .30).

 

I do most my pistol training bulls eye style at 25 meters.

 

But as always, YMMV.

Edited July 14, 2020 by RGA

[gerritm]

I am going to throw some anecdotal personal experience in the mix. I am guessing you all are talking about .355 diameter? Due to the shortage I have been shooting a couple of different coated 9mm .356 124gr RN bullets in my son's STI DVC 3-gun. During testing and zeroing at 25 yards these have been about a quarter sized group off a bag rest. We were really surprised at how accurate they performed. Same results with our PCC's. Every bit as accurate as the normal .355 124/115gr RN FMJ & plated we shoot in our minor PF guns.

 

gerritm

[Marven1999]

On 7/8/2020 at 9:36 AM, AverageJoeShooting said:

Ok let me revise the statement. For action pistol competition. Specifically uspsa and idpa. You will notice no difference in bullets since most shots on any given stage will be inside 30 yards. A super long shot is 50 yards and would probably be 1 target at that distance. I think the longest anyone ever shot in uspsa was 75 yards and it was 1 target on one stage.

I would say as a USPSA shooter I want at least a 2.5 inch group or less at 25 yards. But I just tested some different bullets and was getting 4 in with some, that plays with your head when shooting a mini popper or headshot only target at distance

[OnePivot]

So why are plated so bad? 

 

I originally assumed the plating was inconsistent, causing inconsistent groups... But then I started shooting coated bullets, which are incredibly inconsistent in coating with globs and voids, but coated have shot great for me. Coated are often some of the more accurate in my guns for that matter. 

[Joe4d]

11 hours ago, OnePivot said:

So why are plated so bad? 

 

I originally assumed the plating was inconsistent, causing inconsistent groups... But then I started shooting coated bullets, which are incredibly inconsistent in coating with globs and voids, but coated have shot great for me. Coated are often some of the more accurate in my guns for that matter. 

I think alot of the plated folks were using jacketed diameter bullets instead of cast sized bullets. and just had overall bad QC.. Or maybe the plateing process somehow changed the diameter.
Your coateds are working with inconsistent coatings because the base bullet is larger than grove diameter and is being swagged down as it goes.
I tried Rainier and West coast which after a few name changes is now Xtreme. COuldnt ever get the crimp and sizing right,, pulled a few out of the box and miked them and found them to vary widely in size.  Tossed them.
Berry's were really good but last lead price panic buy price gouge era they jacked prices to be higher than jacketed bullets, and dont think they ever came down.
4 or 5 years ago I got a batch of 9mm 147 Everglades plated bullets and they were sized consistent and loaded and shot fine. 

[shred]

Plated bullets tend to be very hard for some reason probably to do with the production process.  I think that causes issues with swaging into and engraving the rifling when they are fired.  I have noticed that Frontier CMJs dent less (when a bullet tips in the Mark 7 before seating; so about the same force trying to crush them before the sensor trips) than regular JHPs and coated bullets are much softer.

 

[Farmer]

7 hours ago, shred said:

Plated bullets tend to be very hard for some reason probably to do with the production process.  I think that causes issues with swaging into and engraving the rifling when they are fired.  I have noticed that Frontier CMJs dent less (when a bullet tips in the Mark 7 before seating; so about the same force trying to crush them before the sensor trips) than regular JHPs and coated bullets are much softer.

 

Some of the earlier plated that I tested were plain lead. I haven’t done any lately so maybe it’s time. I can’t see them adding any more antimony than absolutely necessary if plain lead would work.