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Start position question....chair start


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15 hours ago, pjb45 said:

 Who recommended this thought?  Was it in the thread or are you just making stuff up?

I read the OP and the question was about sitting *on* the chair. Even if possible, it's a suboptimal starting position, so the only reason to use it is for entertainment purposes and to annoy the stage designer who thinks that his intent matters and WSB doesn't. 

 

Chair starts are very simple to define precisely - "back touching the back of the chair," "feet on the ground," "hands on knees," "feet in front of the chair," etc. These are phrases that easily and unambiguously define the starting position. 

 

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1 hour ago, Jim Watson said:

I haven't seen anybody try to game a chair, but we have a couple of runners to whom "hands relaxed at sides" has no meaning.

This is why the new guidelines call for "wrists below belt" or "wrists above shoulders." It avoids interpretation of what "relaxed" means. Even in this thread there are posters who are way uptight and their "relaxed" might be something quite different from you or me 🙂

 

The only effective way to force some unusual hand position is to have marks on the wall. If you don't want people leaning hard, you create marks for the feet position too. 

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On 3/26/2021 at 11:24 AM, IVC said:

I read the OP and the question was about sitting *on* the chair. Even if possible, it's a suboptimal starting position, so the only reason to use it is for entertainment purposes and to annoy the stage designer who thinks that his intent matters and WSB doesn't. 

 

Chair starts are very simple to define precisely - "back touching the back of the chair," "feet on the ground," "hands on knees," "feet in front of the chair," etc. These are phrases that easily and unambiguously define the starting position. 

 

I would agree.

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If I can avoid having my back fully against the back of the chair I will do it. I am large enough that even without mags in the pouches I hook the chair and carry it a ways until I can knock it off. I've shot several classifiers with a chair hanging off my belt.

 

So if against the back is what you want, state it. Same with the gun on surface, flat and unpropped? Then say so.

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Or the "magazine outside the gun" - I've shot at least one classifier (Tick-Tock, 13-05) where the location of the magazine wasn't specified except to be "outside the gun" so it could be lined up with the magwell, just barely not touching it. You pick up the gun by slamming the magazine into the gun even before you get your grip. 

 

Our local matches always have a mark for where the gun is centered and a mark or area where the magazine needs to be when defining an unloaded start. Either be specific in the WSB, or don't fret when people follow written instructions in the way you haven't anticipated... 

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On 3/27/2021 at 7:30 AM, IVC said:

This is why the new guidelines call for "wrists below belt" or "wrists above shoulders." It avoids interpretation of what "relaxed" means. 

 


I've always found it hilarious that some people at the start show obvious tenseness argued "hey this IS my relaxed at side" yet when they're standing around 10 minutes later gossiping with others, seem to be quite capable of being actually relaxed.

As per others posted, clear simple instructions on how to sit on a chair alas are required for those who feel an extra 1/2" advantage will make them win (and who feel astounded at getting DQ'd for other stuff).

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On 4/3/2021 at 10:51 PM, Kiwishoot said:

As per others posted, clear simple instructions on how to sit on a chair alas are required for those who feel an extra 1/2" advantage will make them win (and who feel astounded at getting DQ'd for other stuff).

I find it funny both ways - one group thinking that small tweaks will make a difference and another group getting upset that the small tweaks the first group is using are not consistent with their intent.

 

In reality, I have never seen a match where the person who shot the best didn't win. 

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OMG,,,  What is this IDPA ? who cares ? SIT means your ass is on something supporting your weight.. Assume some funky monkey position, I would  just keep repeating, "are you ready" till their ass was holding them up.
Oh I am sitting,,,
OK then pick your feet off the ground

 

But again,, WHY ~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! put a line on ground,,, Start is behind line,, gun in holster. No amount of stupid carnival crap will change an order of finish .

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20 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

 I would  just keep repeating, "are you ready" till their ass was holding them up.

 

I don't think you understand when the "are you ready?" command is appropriate

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Make Ready
This command signifies the start of “the Course of
Fire”.
Under the direct supervision of the Range Office
r the competitor must face
down
range, or in a safe direction as specified by the Range Officer, fit eye and
hearing protection, and prepare the firearm in accor
dance with the written
stage briefing.
The co
mpetitor must then assume the specified start position.
The Range Officer will not proceed with any further range commands until the
competitor is still and is in the correct start position.
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Normally you say nothing. Until the competitor gets into start position you assume he is visualizing and getting ready. 
 

There is some wiggle room with new shooters at level one, or when a competitor is clearly assuming incorrect start position, but it's usually sorted out with a quick sentence or two. 

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