Lazy Shooters

[lee blackman]

Incentives and deterrents....  this is how your direct people to do or not do something.

 

I’ve seen my local club change a lot since I shot my first match in 1998.  Not just the membership, and leadership, but the shooters themselves.  The competitive nature of our sport deters the weak “everybody gets a trophy” crowd, which is a heaven send more than we realize. I’ve shot with slot of different clubs, and slot of different matches over the years.  Some places are strong and viable, constantly bringing in new shooters and growing or maintaining crowds.  Other seems to struggle for various reasons.

 

But it’s the long term members, the guys who show up every match, volunteer their labor, and run things who make or break a club.  If you can find or build a good crew, then your ok. But finding talent willing to work for free is getting harder to come by. That volunteer spirit doesn’t seem to be as abundant as it once was.  And yelling at shooters or harassing them into helping after they paid a fee to shoot, especially new shooters, can kill turn out.

 

The answer may be better organization and financial incentives.  In other words, delegate and assign specific duties. Folks who show up the night before to put up stage props and help from beginning to end get match money kicked back to them.  Folks who down show up for setup and tear down but do other tasks like RO, Score Keep, Past, or Roll Brass and sort it on the tables for everyone maybe get to shoot for free or reduced fee.  Everyone else pays full match fee but you can literally show up, shoot, and leave.  And not just anyone can do it, you have to earn your way into it, as a reward for service to the club.  Incentives...  and deterrent would be it’s a lost brass match to all consumer only shooters.

 

Just an idea.  I think staff volunteers and RO’s should be rewarded for their hard work.  Just expecting everyone to step up and do their part in generals, especially since everyone is paying the same amount isn’t really the best model for success.  It seems to be the way it’s always been done but it’s short comings are obvious by this topic post alone.

[Mikeski]

Our club uses a system where we have 2 or 3 RO's on each squad. There may be more but we do have at least 2. The RO's do a good job at keeping people on task and helping reset and break down. 

[bimmer1980]

I´m really happy shooting IPSC reading this stuff… 

 

No pasting, no scoring, no ROing. Just shoot.

[MikeyScuba]

????  Not at any IPSC match around these parts.

[Joe4d]

45 minutes ago, bimmer1980 said:

I´m really happy shooting IPSC reading this stuff… 

 

No pasting, no scoring, no ROing. Just shoot.

And how much are your match fees ?

[bimmer1980]

19 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

And how much are your match fees ?

 

I think pretty close to yours.

 

~ 75 for Level 2

~ 110 for Level 3

 

Don´t know for the even bigger matches.

[Joe4d]

looks like we need to invite some of your MD's over.

[Ben53]

I've been reading this topic, and I can appreciate it.  I'm 66 years old and getting back into USPSA after a long lay-off.  In fact, just started back this year, and it's been slow with the Covid and all.  That said, I want to say that I try to help paste and reset, as much as I can.  It gets pretty damn hot here in the Carolinas, and after I get so hot, I just can't do much anymore.  If I can get cooled down a bit I can get back to work, but that isn't always the case.  I do feel bad about not being able to keep up with the younger folks on my squads, and nobody has given me any grief about it, for which I'm grateful.  I'm sure there are more of us that wish we could do more and hope that our squadmates understand our situation.  I think folks like me have been mentioned in this thread in a positive way, so thanks for that.  I guess I'm just saying many (most) of us are doing what we can, as best we can.

 

Ben

USPSA #L2118

[Joe4d]

Well sometimes we have to just drink the wine and let the world be the world.
Typical 10 man squad. I am not working when I am on deck, the shooter, or immediately after. The other 7, basically I am either gonna reset or RO. Regardless of others.
Dont worry so much about Dragging Ben53,  This thread isnt about folks like you. More about the entitled selfish folks. Not only do they not help, but often they arnt ready when it is their turn, farting around with a camera, chit chatting with folks not on the squad, and OF Course. have some kinda long drawn out song and dance routine at make ready.

[egd5]

Hey Ben 53, I am 70 and I know what you mean....

If you haven't seen one already, go to home depot and get a fan that operates on their (Ryobi) 18 volt system. It is a life saver. Puts out plenty of air and batteries run forever. Set it on a barrel or something and let it cool you while waiting around. Of course you need some kind of cart to haul it and all your stuff around (bag, fan, cooler with drinks, chair) but it really helps make the day go better.

 

Forgot--they have two models. You want the smaller one. It's about 10 inches diameter.

Edited August 5, 2020 by egd5

[Ben53]

Thanks guys, appreciate the support.  Egd5, I'll take a look at that fan you mentioned.  Where I usually shoot there's often not a lot of air moving.. so a fan would be a good help!  The biggest problem down here in the Carolinas is the humidity!!  Sweating just doesn't seem to help any.. so you just have to deal with it, eh?  Thanks again for taking the time to respond.

[gerritm]

32 minutes ago, Ben53 said:

Thanks guys, appreciate the support.  Egd5, I'll take a look at that fan you mentioned.  Where I usually shoot there's often not a lot of air moving.. so a fan would be a good help!  The biggest problem down here in the Carolinas is the humidity!!  Sweating just doesn't seem to help any.. so you just have to deal with it, eh?  Thanks again for taking the time to respond.

 

Ben, I am also 66 and here in SE Texas we have the heat & humidity. I use shooting, both USPSA & 3-gun for my weekend exercise. I normally go to the furthest targets to reset & tape, but as I heat/sweat up I start going to the closer ones. We usually have pretty good tapers & resetters, but sometimes we have lazy social shooters. There is a group of us that try to shoot together so we all are really good about resetting along with my son & granddaughter. They are normally the hardest workers of the the squad.

 

No shame in slowing down as the day goes on. The fan is a good idea, I just ordered one today. Several of the guys have them on their carts. Get in with a good group of non lazy shooters.

 

As one of our top MD"S preach at every match "Shooting is optional, resetting is mandatory." 

 

gerritm

[Darqusoull13]

We generally don't have lazy shooters come out to our matches. I think that might result from a couple of things. 

1) Providing shade and bottled ice water at every match. Pretty much every club can be in the position to do this. In the summer it gets hot in Texas. Objectively the water and ice costs $20-40 a month plus big coolers. That's not all that expensive at all in comparison to other club expenses. It's pretty easy to deal with reset when you're in the shade the majority of the time and you're well hydrated. 
2) The experienced shooters lead by example. We are pretty fortunate to have a great bunch of experienced people. They help the new shooters along and show them the expectations. 
3) Paster guns . I own 2 and bring both to matches for the squad. 

[gerritm]

2 hours ago, Darqusoull13 said:

We generally don't have lazy shooters come out to our matches. I think that might result from a couple of things. 

1) Providing shade and bottled ice water at every match. Pretty much every club can be in the position to do this. In the summer it gets hot in Texas. Objectively the water and ice costs $20-40 a month plus big coolers. That's not all that expensive at all in comparison to other club expenses. It's pretty easy to deal with reset when you're in the shade the majority of the time and you're well hydrated. 
2) The experienced shooters lead by example. We are pretty fortunate to have a great bunch of experienced people. They help the new shooters along and show them the expectations. 
3) Paster guns . I own 2 and bring both to matches for the squad. 

We shoot these matches and the other plus is they are very well run and get done generally before the main heat of the day in the afternoon..That includes set up before & tear down.

 

gerritm

[Darqusoull13]

Glad you like them @gerritm. Hopefully see y'all this Sunday. 

[cas]

It's "special" shooters, who think for some reason pasting and resetting is something for others to do. What's worse, is the contagious effect they have on the rest of the squad. "Heck if he's only going to paste once in a while, so will I!"  No denying it, I've seen it too many times that "this match's slow squad" routinely has that same special person in it.  

Edited August 5, 2020 by cas

[Sarge]

Saw a past National Open Champion sir in the shade and not lift a finger earlier this year. Most are lazy but a few feel entitled as well.

[IHAVEGAS]

23 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Saw a past National Open Champion sir in the shade and not lift a finger earlier this year. Most are lazy but a few feel entitled as well.

 

If iron sights are too much work, and recoil is too much work, and changing mags twice a stage is too exhausting to even  think about, then it makes sense that the orthopedic gun crowd would not be big on pasting. 

 

 

 

[nasty618]

I've refused to RO a guy who didn't reset at all.  I'd do it... but he was also a revolver shooter, so no.  I just put the timer on the barrel and walked away. Was that ok?

[mchapman]

 

 

 

1 hour ago, nasty618 said:

.. but he was also a revolver shooter, so no.  

So just what exactly does that have to do with lazy shooters, or your willingness to help?

[Stdz]

I'm new and I tape and tape hard. After a few matches I'll grab the tablet and help score. Gonna be a few before I ever RO. 

[nasty618]

10 hours ago, mchapman said:

So just what exactly does that have to do with lazy shooters, or your willingness to help?

I mean... Everything! I hope you're not suggesting that we should treat revolver shooters with the same level of respect and dignity as Open shooters.  

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, nasty618 said:

I mean... Everything! I hope you're not suggesting that we should treat revolver shooters with the same level of respect and dignity as Open shooters.  

[IHAVEGAS]

1 hour ago, nasty618 said:

I mean... Everything! I hope you're not suggesting that we should treat revolver shooters with the same level of respect and dignity as Open shooters.  

 

I wonder how long open will continue to exist now that we have welfare open for the special needs but frugal and rifle for the no self respect at all crowd? 

 

 

[Stdz]

38 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

I wonder how long open will continue to exist now that we have welfare open for the special needs but frugal and rifle for the no self respect at all crowd? 

 

 

You take that back! CO is my next fav div!