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Marketing USPSA-- from 2020 PCC Nationals Feedback


ltdmstr

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4 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

This could actually morph into a useful discussion if ideas were concerned with first principles.

 

If you increased the number of shooters, significantly where would you first find the additional ranges for them to shoot at? Squads over 12 people tend to suck and drive shooters away, some clubs are already struggling to deal with too much success. 

 

If somebody was to find the additional ranges where would you first find all of the additional trained free help? As is, the biggest hindrance to expansion or just maintaining is the massive amount of work involved in this volunteer sport. 

 

 

 

This man gets it.  

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5 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

Squads over 12 people tend to suck and drive shooters away, some clubs are already struggling to deal with too much success. 

 

 

s#!t, around here if I see squads of just 12 shooters at a 6 stage local I'm thinking about how fast it's going to go.

 

We have matches sell out with in minutes, even with limits of 20 per squad.

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I'm not sure the argument is to add shooters but moreso show companies that USPSA can drive sales.

 

Similar to advertising on hunting shows, 'I couldn't have done this without X companies bow, Y companies camo and I got there with Z companies truck.'

 

So now you apply this to USPSA and show a run and have some commentary on how great this gun performs, how consistent these mag pouches are, comfortable those pants are etc. Then maybe some armchair warriors see it and want to buy the gear, that eventually just sits on a shelf.

 

Is this possible, maybe. Is it likely to happen, no. There is so much content out there for people to watch that it's a huge uphill battle. And the points about USPSA being confusing to viewers is an understatement. People are going to have no idea what is going on unless it really gets dumbed down to popping balloons and knocking over steel. 

 

Let's for argument sale that USPSA ends up on tv, all it takes is a handful of people complaining to the broadcaster and it's all over, banished from TV for life.

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36 minutes ago, Intheshaw1 said:

People are going to have no idea what is going on unless it really gets dumbed down to popping balloons and knocking over steel. 

 

Let's for argument sale that USPSA ends up on tv, all it takes is a handful of people complaining to the broadcaster and it's all over, banished from TV for life.

 

And are these things we want?

 

As a USPSA member, I want to shoot USPSA as it is. If they dumb it down to make it TV friendly it could loose it's appeal and if it does I'll move on to something else. And I'm sure a lot of our members would do the same. Then what happens if we've completely changed the sport to make it more ingest-able for the masses only to get banished from TV after the next school shooting? I imagine what happens is the sport dies a slow death. 

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Lots of good points, let me try to break down some.

 

DFW has plenty of ranges that would accommodate, but are more expensive than the ranges being used.

 

Part of this strategy is about explaining to ranges the money USPSA shooters could make for them.

 

A USPSA Promoter needs to be doing this, along with getting the advertisements in, and helping to teach the general public.

 

We can’t expect people to want to read a Technical, 150 page book before their first match.

 

But, they love 4 hour shooting classes.

 

In the areas where range space just completely isn’t available, these are the types of high expenditure activities that can cause new ranges to be built.

 

As was said, the income disposed of in pursuit of this sport is much greater than most others and that links further into USPSA’s place in the market.

 

Beer, I explained USPSA’s place in the market.  It is a pay to play game.

 

I can break it down further by saying the system/console developers are the firearms manufacturers.

 

The games are self-defense, IDPA, GSSF, 3 Gun, USPSA, etc.

 

The Peripheral manufacturers (keyboard, mice, headsets) are the gear manufacturers.


USPSA IS the product.  There’s no point in getting hung up with the local aspects and organization of matches - that’s a fundamental flaw in how USPSA currently chooses to obtain and use sponsorships.

 

Yes, I believe USPSA should be giving Match Director’s money for operation of major matches.  In order to do that, there need to be some changes to USPSA’s revenue stream, but in the long run, this would be of much more benefit to everyone because the parent organization would be able to negotiate financial input from major companies on a fair, large scale.  Instead of allowing major companies to take advantage of local matches.

 

This goes back to the USPSA revenue stream and how to adjust it for added revenue.
 

Unlike video games that sell mostly themselves, this product sells expensive consoles because of how few games compete with it and the fact that the game plays very differently with every console.

 

USPSA is but one game, but proper market research would likely show that 20,000 participants in this one game is about equivalent to having 1 to 2 million players in a pay to play game.

 

Data is not concrete here, but if you saw a marketing survey from me I think you would understand why I feel that way.


It’s not growth for the sake of growth.  It’s growth for the sake of survival. 
 

Even on the long shot that our preferred consoles don’t get banned with the next bout of litigation - what happens when the current older generations in this sport are no longer around?

 

Do you think we have enough young people in it right now to replace them and keep this sport alive, even against public opinion?

 

Mikeg, just because something is complicated, doesn’t mean it’s boring.

 

It would be very easy to make this something that is only really fast people shooting guns at a multitude of targets very quickly.

 

That was my point with Top Shot.  For a lot of us, the likely reason it died is because of the reality spin they put on it.

 

It was never treated like a sport.

 

A lot of people don’t know the rules in football.  They sit down, grab a beer, and watch people run, throw, and tackle each other.

 

The rules and complications appeal to the die hards.  The multiple target shooting appeal to people who just like to watch things get shot really fast.

 

Now, don’t misunderstand any of these words.

 

I’m not pushing for USPSA to be televised.

 

But, with proper promotion, it could be successfully streamed.  
 

Of course nobody watched a stream for USPSA when most gun owners didn’t even know it existed.

 

And no need to cut back any shooters.  As was suggested, run it like Golf.  Show the fastest guys live.  Show good runs as recordings.  Have more cameras so additional angles can be captured.  No one wants to see stage runs from a static or rolling camera angle only.

 

Nothing would need to be simplified.

 

Interviews are pre-recorded and cut in to the live feed.  The reason other sports have live interviews is because their players are on contract - which also goes back to building USPSA as an organization instead of building local matches.

 

But, regardless of all of this - Intheshaw hit the first point.  The one that’s more important than any of the live streaming, attracting shooters, teaching . . . 
 

Show companies that USPSA can drive sales.

 

That’s when life is going to become a lot better for the match directors, range officers, and competitors.

 

Can you imagine not having to find any sponsors or being a paid referee?  Winning substantial prizes?

 

A slow death is definitely achievable.  
 

But none of us want that.

 

And the way to prevent it is to do something about it.

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1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

s#!t, around here if I see squads of just 12 shooters at a 6 stage local I'm thinking about how fast it's going to go.

 

We have matches sell out with in minutes, even with limits of 20 per squad.

 

Ick.

 

All that standing around would make me crazy. 

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On 6/24/2020 at 8:05 AM, Racinready300ex said:

Sponsors want people to see them, but no one is watching USPSA. This sport is really boring to watch unless you're in it, and even then most people in it don't watch video's either. 

 

USPSA is not really a spectator friendly sport, because without a lot of editing or commentary you can't tell what's going on unless you know what to look for. Maybe a channel/group that provides that could build more interest.

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1 hour ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Ick.

 

All that standing around would make me crazy. 

 

I try to avoid the clubs that allow squads to get that big. Lots of times there will be a bunch of no shows so it might end up only being 15-16 in your squad if you're lucky. You can also hope for rain lol. It's terrible. The clubs that limit squads to 10 can be hard to get into, you need to be sitting at you're computer the second registration goes live. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Whoops! said:

Show companies that USPSA can drive sales.

 

This is you're no. 1 problem.  It doesn't drive sales.  And the manufacturers know that.  In reality, the gun business is a relatively small industry, in terms of the number of key players.  Most people who've been in it for a while know who's who, where the market's going, etc.  And those that have made significant contributions to USPSA in the past have seen for themselves the lack of payback.  In case you missed it, the single biggest gun manufacturer for the sport recently stopped making competition-type pistols because they were losing money doing so.  Instead, they're concentrating on the tacticool market.  It's good to be optimistic, but not blind to the reality of the situation.

 

 

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14 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

 

 In reality, the gun business is a relatively small industry, in terms of the number of key players. 

 

This.  Last I looked, Briggs&Stratton and Tupperware were further up the Fortune 500 than any gun companies, few of which even made it.

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17 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

 

This is you're no. 1 problem.  It doesn't drive sales.  And the manufacturers know that.  In reality, the gun business is a relatively small industry, in terms of the number of key players.  Most people who've been in it for a while know who's who, where the market's going, etc.  And those that have made significant contributions to USPSA in the past have seen for themselves the lack of payback.  In case you missed it, the single biggest gun manufacturer for the sport recently stopped making competition-type pistols because they were losing money doing so.  Instead, they're concentrating on the tacticool market.  It's good to be optimistic, but not blind to the reality of the situation.

 

 


 

This is how short sighted the gun industry has been due to lack of proper marketing research.

 

The only reason STI was able to break into the law enforcement market was because of it’s experience in the competitive market.

 

One made the other.

 

Thinking of competitions as a loss would never had allowed it to break into the bigger market.

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17 minutes ago, Whoops! said:


 

This is how short sighted the gun industry has been due to lack of proper marketing research.

 

The only reason STI was able to break into the law enforcement market was because of it’s experience in the competitive market.

 

One made the other.

 

Thinking of competitions as a loss would never had allowed it to break into the bigger market.

I would make the argument that STI/Stacatto has not truly broken into the LEO market.  They are flirting around the edges but broken into would be defined as the Glock/Sig/M&P level of saturation.  

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39 minutes ago, aandabooks said:

I would make the argument that STI/Stacatto has not truly broken into the LEO market.  They are flirting around the edges but broken into would be defined as the Glock/Sig/M&P level of saturation.  


They broke in enough to apparently not give a crap about the people that caused them to become famous.

 

 

Let me talk about something else that was brought up also that I forgot to address.

 

If anyone right now makes more major matches, it is hurting the sport.

 

USPSA as an organization doesn’t understand that yet because of the way they are operated and because they mostly aren’t yet in the business of obtaining sponsors for matches.

 

Even though they are technically the not for profit - not the sub contracting match directors - and as a result, USPSA SHOULD BE THE ONLY ORGANIZATION GETTING SPONSORS AND DIRECTING MAJOR MATCHES.

 

Local matches - awesome.  Definitely good.  definitely need more of them.

Edited by Whoops!
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On 6/24/2020 at 4:31 PM, Whoops! said:

I think if we got behind it, and started offering prizes people took notice of, and started talking up our sport for the legit contest of skill that it is, our country could make the best shooters in the world.

 

 

why don't you try it, and see what happens? Organize a big match, give out great prizes, and change the world. You're not going to get anywhere trying to badger other people into doing it for you. If you think you can do some thing better, get cracking...

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2 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

why don't you try it, and see what happens? Organize a big match, give out great prizes, and change the world. You're not going to get anywhere trying to badger other people into doing it for you. If you think you can do some thing better, get cracking...


We posted at the same time.  No one should be making more major matches right now.

 

USPSA needs to fix that aspect of the way they do business before it can be a realistic expectation that industry will buy in and match directors won’t be suffering and busting their ass off for the foreseeable future in order to have an acceptable prize table and an appropriate amount of liability.

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5 minutes ago, Whoops! said:


We posted at the same time.  No one should be making more major matches right now.

 

USPSA needs to fix that aspect of the way they do business before it can be a realistic expectation that industry will buy in and match directors won’t be suffering and busting their ass off for the foreseeable future in order to have an acceptable prize table and an appropriate amount of liability.

 

How about if we go the opposite way.  Level II and Area matches go to a no prize table, no cash payouts format with a $75 max entry fee.  10-12 good quality stages.  Max of 300 competitors.  That brings in $22, 500.  Enough to pay the range, buy targets and supplies.  Comp the hotels for staff and call it a day.  People will show up to compete at a good quality match.  

 

Nationals can do whatever it wants since they are the only matches that are actually run by USPSA.  

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22 minutes ago, Whoops! said:


We posted at the same time.  No one should be making more major matches right now.

 

USPSA needs to fix that aspect of the way they do business before it can be a realistic expectation that industry will buy in and match directors won’t be suffering and busting their ass off for the foreseeable future in order to have an acceptable prize table and an appropriate amount of liability.

wait, wut? you want someone else to do stuff instead of you? good luck with that.  If you don't have the commitment to put on matches, then run for uspsa president or your area director, and publicize your ideas for change.

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2 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

wait, wut? you want someone else to do stuff instead of you? good luck with that.  If you don't have the commitment to put on matches, then run for uspsa president or your area director, and publicize your ideas for change.


Yeah, that’s the whole point of having elected officials in a not for profit right?

 

To do the things that will benefit the intent of the organization the most.

 

I’m not allowed to hold a paid or elected position with USPSA because of another job I have.  
 

All I can do is help light the way and volunteer.

 

And I’m telling you now, organizational changes need to happen if this thing is going to last.

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7 minutes ago, Whoops! said:


Yeah, that’s the whole point of having elected officials in a not for profit right?

 

To do the things that will benefit the intent of the organization the most.

 

I’m not allowed to hold a paid or elected position with USPSA because of another job I have.  
 

All I can do is help light the way and volunteer.

 

And I’m telling you now, organizational changes need to happen if this thing is going to last.

 

it sounds like most people disagree with you. I know I do. I currently put on local matches, help set up local matches, and work my home section and area matches, and nationals when they're in the west. I've seen the sport getting steadily better and more interesting the last several years. I'm happy.

 

and i'm not sure big tv sports should be something we aspire to. imho, most of those sports have gotten worse over the years, as they've changed to try to get attention instead of just provide the best competition. NFL comes to mind, and pro mtb racing. I don't really care about getting on tv, I just care about shooting better next week than I do today.

Edited by motosapiens
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6 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

it sounds like most people disagree with you. I know I do. I currently put on local matches, help set up local matches, and work my home section and area matches, and nationals when they're in the west. I've seen the sport getting steadily better and more interesting the last several years. I'm happy.

 

and i'm not sure big tv sports should be something we aspire to. imho, most of those sports have gotten worse over the years, as they've changed to try to get attention instead of just provide the best competition. NFL comes to mind, and pro mtb racing. I don't really care about getting on tv, I just care about shooting better next week than I do today.


I agree it’s been getting better and I also help local matches.

 

However, it’s not getting the major changes it needs to stay alive.

 

I normally anticipate these type of things before most other people.

 

And most people usually ignore my early warnings.

 

But, I always try to put these things out early enough for anyone who can act on them to act on them.

 

And there’s no way we can even come close to comparing the level of talent in USPSA to the level of talent in the NFL.

 

We don’t have anywhere close the capital necessary to identify and develop talent like they do.

 

And, as long as the top competitors in our sport are making an average living wage,

 

The general public is not going to aspire to be Top USPSA shooters.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Whoops! said:

 

And, as long as the top competitors in our sport are making an average living wage,

 

The general public is not going to aspire to be Top USPSA shooters.

 

 

good.

 

big money ruined mtn bike racing, and motocross. I see no need to let it ruin uspsa. it's great fun as an amateur sport. if people want big money they can sign up for american ninja or some other silly tv nonsense.

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Early warnings, this sport has been around for like 45 years. 

 

I think there is a huge risk in trying to make our sport more main stream. We'll likely make the shooting silly, similar to your example of Top Shot. Then the sport will be less appealing to me so why would I want that? Big money? What happens when there is another school shooting and all that funding gets pulled? Then what are we left with? We're left with a sport that is less appealing, more gimmicky and likely has less money. 

 

What is the gain from that risk? Some pro's get to make money. So far I'm not sold on the idea.

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27 minutes ago, Whoops! said:

And, as long as the top competitors in our sport are making an average living wage,

 

The general public is not going to aspire to be Top USPSA shooters.

 

This isn't going to happen no matter how much money is involved.  You have about half the population against guns in general.  And of the other half, probably less than half of those are serious enthusiasts.  And out of that, probably a small fraction even give a cr*p about practical shooting.  As bright as you think you are, you're not going to change any of that.

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29 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Early warnings, this sport has been around for like 45 years. 

 

I think there is a huge risk in trying to make our sport more main stream. We'll likely make the shooting silly, similar to your example of Top Shot. Then the sport will be less appealing to me so why would I want that? Big money? What happens when there is another school shooting and all that funding gets pulled? Then what are we left with? We're left with a sport that is less appealing, more gimmicky and likely has less money. 

 

What is the gain from that risk? Some pro's get to make money. So far I'm not sold on the idea.


 

This is exactly why it needs to go main stream.

 

There is going to be something that pits public opinion further against us and we’re going to be wiped out of existence without the public even knowing what they did.

 

At least give us a chance to stop that instead of just being an unheard voice.

 

But, nothing needs to be gimmicky in order for us to have a voice.

Edited by Whoops!
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