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Switching from Production to Limited - your advice?


lfine

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6 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

Limited Division Tip - Accept the fact that you will have to push through or roll size all of your 40 brass before you reload it. Way too many new Limited division shooters try everything possible to not push through size or roll size their brass before loading it and it leads to a bunch of wasted time and inconsistent functionality. Embrace the suck up front and push through size or roll size your 40 brass before loading it. Does it suck doing so? Yes. Will it dramatically reduce your random feeding issues? YES!!!

 

that stuff won't hurt you, but our issues turned out to be a combination of weak springs, crap magazines (sti gen 2), and weird short feed-ramp. one by one we addressed each of them and have had zero problems since. the biggest single improvement was made by switching to stronger tti springs in our mbx magazines. the second-biggest improvement was made by having the feed ramp re-profiled to look like a normal feed ramp.

 

right now i run all the range pickup brass from matches through a push-through die, but i don't bother with our practice brass that has already been pushed through before. That has dramatically reduced the percentage of case-gauge fails.

 

Of course that stuff is not really an issue with a tacsport. I don't recall ever having a malfunction of any kind in the 6 months or so I shot one. I ended up going to a 2011 to make it easier to pick up my singlestack gun here and there, but I have fond memories of cz reliability. I didn't even break one of my 4 slide-stops in that 6 months!

Edited by motosapiens
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12 minutes ago, waktasz said:

Yes, of course. That's why it's and undersized die, not a get closed to the shell plate die

 

You understand that. Many people have been confused about the over the years.

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10 hours ago, ima45dv8 said:

You understand that. Many people have been confused about the over the years.

all you have to do is cut a case in half vertically to see it, and then hopefully understand it. but you're totally right!

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18 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

Limited Division Tip - Accept the fact that you will have to push through or roll size all of your 40 brass before you reload it.

 

I use Hornady dies and a Lee Factory Carbide Crimp die.  I do not push through size.  The FCD resizes the case all the way to the bottom, and again when you raise the die.  It reduced the number of loaded rounds that would not drop freely into and out of my Shockbottle gauge from 20% to under 1%.  Even that 1% chambered and fired (in practice) in both my TS and my 2011s.

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If you can get away with not push through or roll sizing your 40 brass, good for you. I don’t have the opportunity to capture all of “my” brass when shooting. This means that I primarily use random mixed brass shot through god know what. Doing this requires that I push through or roll size my brass before I load it. Doing this dramatically improves case gauging and feeding reliability so it’s totally worth it to me. 
 

I have also seen many other 40 cal shooters try to get away with not push through sizing or roll sizing and then battle random ammo induced jams on a regular basis. 

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That's cool. But the .40 cal brass I have bought by the bucket, I was pretty sure wasn't mine, and assumed it had bulged brass in it from someone else's habits.

 

I don't think anyone here is disputing what you say, Charlie. Push-thru or roll-sizing is a slam-dunk solution. They just happen to require at least one extra step, and in the case of roll-sizing, extra expense. I haven't bought a U-Die in a while but it looks like they're still less than $30.00 and incorporate nicely into the 'normal' reloading process. That is, unless you have a SquareDeal press. I don't know whether they have made a version for it. They didn't use to.

 

The salient point is to be aware that bulged brass, especially in .40 caliber, IS a common cause of failures to chamber fully and SOME sort of precaution should be taken. Whether that is one of the approaches you mention or something else, do it before "Make Ready".

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I started pushing through all my match brass after a malfunction at the match while shooting TSO.  I found it easy to do. It helps tremendously to reload  - very smooth and easy. Most of the problems with a reloading press are due to the range brass. With the pushed through brass the whole process goes much faster at the end.

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Since we moved to reloading...

 

I bought a Roll Sizer last year because my Hundo gauge kept failing quite a bit of finished rounds even with the U-die. After rollsizing, I still kept the U-die to get the same brass shape as before. No problems since, even if I still get some rounds to be "stiff" in the Hundo.

 

As for the Roll Sizer - it's a very simple and quick process. Case feeder connects to the machine using plastic tube and brass collects in a large bucket bellow. 

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As for moving to Limited, I started in L10 Minor because that's what I had. I moved to major soon after, but remained in L10 for two years due to the commie-state magazine laws. When I finally moved to Limited, there were two big differences: (1) stage planning allowed for more elaborate, more efficient plans, and (2) train myself NOT to reload as I'm leaving a position, but only at the point where the stage plan calls for the reload. 

 

Moving from Production, you'll have to work on two more changes: (3) major scoring changes the calculation of speed vs. points, and (4) faster draws and reloads because the gear allows it. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Question on roll sizer - does it only remove the brass bulge, or does it also decap spent primers and size the cases like a sizing/decapping die does?

It would be nice to have an automated machine that does all the above in one step. 

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21 minutes ago, Dazhi said:

Question on roll sizer - does it only remove the brass bulge, or does it also decap spent primers and size the cases like a sizing/decapping die does?

It would be nice to have an automated machine that does all the above in one step. 

 

There are no roll sizer machines that I know of that roll size and decap the brass at the same time. There is probably something like that ammo manufactures use but its probably not something you would be willing to pay $$$$$$$ for.

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I started off in CO, broke a bunch of optics so got frustrated and went to Limited. It was alright but didn’t really like shooting 40 and reloading for just one gun that I have while everything else I have is 9mm. 
Im going to production mainly out of how cheap I CAN play in that division. 
I also didn’t like the style of limited, I think I’m gonna enjoy prod more. 

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When switching to Limited from production, you need to be prepared for the increase in hair on your chest. There will also be a sudden increase in the number of clear blue sky days, twenty dollar bills found lying in the street, and ideal parking spots left open in every parking lot you enter. And I'm happily married so I have no experience with this, but I hear that single Limited shooters don't stay single long, usually pairing up with an Eastern European fashion model, the kind that walking down the street leaves behind them a trail of stunned shaken men & the faint scent of Chanel and cigarettes.
You are also going to start having to buy brass and pay more for bullets. So the pros and cons kinda even each other out.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

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23 hours ago, obsessiveshooter said:

When switching to Limited from production, you need to be prepared for the increase in hair on your chest. There will also be a sudden increase in the number of clear blue sky days, twenty dollar bills found lying in the street, and ideal parking spots left open in every parking lot you enter. And I'm happily married so I have no experience with this, but I hear that single Limited shooters don't stay single long, usually pairing up with an Eastern European fashion model, the kind that walking down the street leaves behind them a trail of stunned shaken men & the faint scent of Chanel and cigarettes.
You are also going to start having to buy brass and pay more for bullets. So the pros and cons kinda even each other out.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

Hahaha dang, my limited experience must’ve been broken. The twenty dollar bills are placed to pay for those 130$ mags lol

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  • 3 weeks later...

I remember 30 years ago when no one could figure out why the quality barreled 40 cal guns would not quit jamming in matches. It was really easy to be competitive at majors when people did not case gauge their ammo. Then these damn roll sizers and push through dies came out. I hate it when innovation levels the playing field. But then again, 30 years later you have people not utilizing all the tools available and wonder why they have problems. Watch the same guy every month have failures at local matches. Ask every month if he case gauges all ammo. Same answer...... nope. Here's your sign.

 

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