Best MOA Dot for USPSA.

[waktasz]

I tend not to see out of my nose, since I have eyeballs. 

[HesedTech]

1 hour ago, Cuz said:

At least I was before my eyesight started going downhill. Changing my prescription so I could see the front sight now makes it too difficult to acquire the target or navigate a course of fire. At least with my everyday progressive lens glasses I can see the targets clearly. 

I have same exact issue. 
 

Switched to CO two years ago and have never looked back. 
 

A lot of dry fire is the answer. I found draw exactly the same as Production but instead of looking for the sights to come into view one needs to look at the intended point of impact on the target, i.e target focus. 
 

When dot comes into view shoot what you see.  Then transition eyes to next target, gun follows and repeat. 
 

Keep it simple so the only thing to think about is where you want your bullet to hit.
 

 

[lgh]

1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

Are you saying bring the gun up to nose height and then push out?

Looking from the side, the arc of the gun is concave up.  What you describe is convex (concave down), also sometimes referred to as a bowling motion. If the concave curve I describe is too high, it is called a fishing motion or "Zebco".

 

The topic comes up in training and has been discussed in a thread or two here on BE. Most seem to find that the correct concave motion gets the sights on fast. At high speed, bowling or fishing tends to put the dot too high or low and requires am adjustment (or more) when the gun is at full extension. That's an extra step(s) and can be frankly dangerous if you are in the habit of prepping the trigger. When you are driving the gun down your sight line, the muzzle is on target early in the draw stroke. But some apparently do fine with the approach you describe. So YMMV.

[Racinready300ex]

1 hour ago, lgh said:

Looking from the side, the arc of the gun is concave up.  What you describe is convex (concave down), also sometimes referred to as a bowling motion. If the concave curve I describe is too high, it is called a fishing motion or "Zebco".

 

The topic comes up in training and has been discussed in a thread or two here on BE. Most seem to find that the correct concave motion gets the sights on fast. At high speed, bowling or fishing tends to put the dot too high or low and requires am adjustment (or more) when the gun is at full extension. That's an extra step(s) and can be frankly dangerous if you are in the habit of prepping the trigger. When you are driving the gun down your sight line, the muzzle is on target early in the draw stroke. But some apparently do fine with the approach you describe. So YMMV.

 

I've seen guys do vary well fishing....well one guy. So anything can be effective. The idea of bringing the gun up then pressing it out has been around for a long time. I think most people don't really do that, at least not when their in a hurry. 

 

I'm sure a few do fine with the approach you describe. 

[SGT_Schultz]

8 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 The idea of bringing the gun up then pressing it out has been around for a long time. I think most people don't really do that, at least not when their in a hurry.

 

That technique is much more widely used than you seem to think it is in situations when time is of the essence.  But I'm sure you'll disagree.

Edited May 20, 2021 by SGT_Schultz

[jt1207]

I haven't really thought about how the gun gets out in front of my eyes--I hear the beep and I grab gun and stick it out in front of me. Seems like there's an actual learning aspect here rather than an instinctual one. 

[Cuz]

10 hours ago, jt1207 said:

I haven't really thought about how the gun gets out in front of my eyes--I hear the beep and I grab gun and stick it out in front of me. Seems like there's an actual learning aspect here rather than an instinctual one. 

 

 

The more this game starts to grab you, the more you start dissecting it.  Then you realize that if you hold the spoon at a different angle while eating breakfast the morning of the match, it may enable you to shave a few hundredths off the time on your 3rd stage...

 

 

[Racinready300ex]

12 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

That technique is much more widely used than you seem to think it is in situations when time is of the essence.  But I'm sure you'll disagree.

 

When I watch people I rarely see the gun come up then press out. I do hear a lot of guys say that's what they do though. 

 

And I'm pretty sure I've never seen anyone bring the gun up to there nose first or even all the way to the eye line. Typically it's recommending more of a "hi ready"  or chest height then press out. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Racinready300ex

[Racinready300ex]

12 hours ago, jt1207 said:

I haven't really thought about how the gun gets out in front of my eyes--I hear the beep and I grab gun and stick it out in front of me. Seems like there's an actual learning aspect here rather than an instinctual one. 

 

I think grab it and stick it out there is the way to go. It'll take the shortest path pretty naturally. If once it's out there the dot isn't there adjust so it is and pay attention to how that feels. Then on subsequent reps try to nail that feeling. Every rep check to make sure you got it right and adjust if needed and note the feeling. Keep trying to duplicate it. Over time it wont matter if it's a dot or iron sight, you'll look to a spot and the gun will appear there.

 

Transitions work the same way, the draw is just a translon from your holster to the 1st target really. On a transition you don't bring the gun in only to push it back out so you can find the dot. You just look to the next spot and the gun will appear there. 

[lgh]

2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

And I'm pretty sure I've never seen anyone bring the gun up to there nose first or even all the way to the eye line. Typically it's recommending more of a "hi ready"  or chest height then press out. 

I think you are missing the point here. Nose to target defines the sight line. You don't bring the gun to your nose. You put it on the sight line in front of you and drive it forward. You can't drive it straight forward from your chest.

 

If you get a chance, look up the threads on this subject. They are pretty good.

[jt1207]

4 hours ago, Cuz said:

 

 

The more this game starts to grab you, the more you start dissecting it.  Then you realize that if you hold the spoon at a different angle while eating breakfast the morning of the match, it may enable you to shave a few hundredths off the time on your 3rd stage...

 

 

Haha I knew there was a secret trick! I'm still in the "I need to wear my lucky socks" phase.

[jt1207]

3 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I think grab it and stick it out there is the way to go. It'll take the shortest path pretty naturally. If once it's out there the dot isn't there adjust so it is and pay attention to how that feels. Then on subsequent reps try to nail that feeling. Every rep check to make sure you got it right and adjust if needed and note the feeling. Keep trying to duplicate it. Over time it wont matter if it's a dot or iron sight, you'll look to a spot and the gun will appear there.

 

Transitions work the same way, the draw is just a translon from your holster to the 1st target really. On a transition you don't bring the gun in only to push it back out so you can find the dot. You just look to the next spot and the gun will appear there. 

I definitely need more practice and more reps here for what you suggest. 

[Racinready300ex]

58 minutes ago, lgh said:

I think you are missing the point here. Nose to target defines the sight line. You don't bring the gun to your nose. You put it on the sight line in front of you and drive it forward. You can't drive it straight forward from your chest.

 

If you get a chance, look up the threads on this subject. They are pretty good.

 

Threads are tough this stuff is hard to explain, maybe we're thinking the same thing and wording it differently.

 

Here's a video at 1:20ish you get a good view of the shooters draw. It essentially clears the holster then starts pushing out. It's not a up to eye line then out. The instant the gun reaches his eyeline he fires the shot. 

 

 

 

Here's one at 1:26 the gun doesn't reach the eye until it's all the way out. 

 

 

This one is really good, at about 1:05 it's zoomed in on his glasses when the gun comes into frame his arms are already fully extended, clearly well before reaching his eye line. You see it again from about 2:40

 

None of these guys are bringing the gun up to their eye line then pressing it out. 

 

 

 

This last dude is more up and out but still not all the way to the eye line before starting to press out, this seems more chest level then press and the the gun reaches his eye basically at the end. 11:40

 

 

[waktasz]

I think this guy wants to do the Todd Green pressout, but Todd Green and his students were pretty much the only people advocating for that. 

[lgh]

2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

It essentially clears the holster then starts pushing out. It's not a up to eye line then out.

Yeah, that's it. It doesn't come straight up and out like it's a 90 degree turn. From the side it is an arc. The push starts early, when the support hand engages. Ben hits sight line pretty far out there but it ends in a push. The point is that it ends in a push and not putting the brakes on as the gun comes swinging up from below (bowling).

 

The threads here at BE are very good at describing this with examples of push vs bowling. I doubt many here are actually bowling and I don't imagine you are advocating it.

 

 

[Racinready300ex]

5 minutes ago, lgh said:

Yeah, that's it. It doesn't come straight up and out like it's a 90 degree turn. From the side it is an arc. The push starts early, when the support hand engages. Ben hits sight line pretty far out there but it ends in a push. The point is that it ends in a push and not putting the brakes on as the gun comes swinging up from below (bowling).

 

The threads here at BE are very good at describing this with examples of push vs bowling. I doubt many here are actually bowling and I don't imagine you are advocating it.

 

 

 

I never mentioned bowling, or swinging the gun up from below. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I said "it travels in roughly a straight line from the holster to the firing position". If you draw a straight line from where the gun clears the holster to the firing position you'll have a angle where the gun is moving up and forward at the same time like all of the dudes in those video's are doing. 

 

So if how they are drawing the gun is what you're picturing as bringing the gun up to your nose and then pressing it out then we are describing the exact same thing just explaining it differently. From your description the above video's are not what I pictured at all. I was picturing the technique where you bring the gun almost straight up to a compressed ready then press it out. Only that is really more chest level and you've specifically motioned chest high isn't high enough. 

 

[lgh]

3 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

Only that is really more chest level and you've specifically motioned chest high isn't high enough

Yeah, that's it. Some start early, some start later. We want to be pushing at the end, not swinging. When we are too too high  bowling or fishing becomes the issue. We did not have the gun horizontal and on the sight line at the end of the draw stroke.

[bludog]

Finally got prescription shooting glasses  made a huge difference with my 8moa dot

[Kirkster]

On 6/14/2021 at 12:06 AM, bludog said:

Finally got prescription shooting glasses  made a huge difference with my 8moa dot

What is the reason for prescription shooting glasses and a red dot?  

 

I made the switch to dots to get rid of prescription shooting glasses, I think I am down to two guns left with irons and hardly ever shoot them because the front sight is too damn hard to focus on and see the target.

 

The dot brought fun back to shooting since now I can clearly see the target and the dot is where the shot goes,  no more blurry target…

[waktasz]

So you can see the targets? 

[Kirkster]

6 hours ago, waktasz said:

So you can see the targets? 

Hum.  I see them just fine with my regular glasses.  My shooting glasses in the past were so I could see the front sight… Now with dots I don’t need prescription shooting glasses.

[waktasz]

Some people want more protection than their regular glasses offer. 

 

[SGT_Schultz]

On 6/14/2021 at 12:06 AM, bludog said:

Finally got prescription shooting glasses  made a huge difference with my 8moa dot

 

I'm curious too.  What did you change?

 

Hopefully you didn't get glasses that give you a crisp, sharp dot and blurry targets...............

[bludog]

It's not just the size of the dot, you should also consider the brightness of the dot especially in sunlight and the size of the glass.

[AzShooter]

I prefer a 12 MOA dot on my guns.  I use C-More Railways and can change dot sizes from 2 to 16 MOA.  I find the 12 easy to pick up and the dot stays on target when shooting at speed.