Steel Challenge Rimfire Pistol

[Flageo]

I am an older shooter and feel much more comfortable with an 8 moa red dot.  I am currently in the process of changing over my c more railways on striplin 90 mounts to the c more rts2 in 8 moa.  Makes the pistols lighter.  Seems to be working out in practice

[Hammer002]

9 hours ago, Gregg K said:

It will be a happy day when everyone gets on board and uses the AMG timer. The AMG picks up a suppressed 22 rifle shooting SV ammunition and has zero problems with an un-compensated pistol. For my match I supply AMG timers paired to tablets for every stage. If my little rinky dink match can do it, everyone can do it. Get with the program.

 

I have done the same, and they are better.  The conversation here is more from a competitor point of view maybe.  As a competitor, ok anything resembling a serious competitor or anyone who cares about their scores and not having to reshoot, should be running a comp.  Even with the AMG I would still highly recommend it.  The AMG has the other side of the issue where it is sensitive enough to pick other things up as well if not put on the perfect setting for that gun at that time.  Otherwise you get something like 9 shots and you don't know which one is the last one.  Its not hard, but not all ROs are aware how to adjust.

 

10 hours ago, EarlKeese said:

I see lots of rimfire pistols w/o comps at SC matches. They seem plenty loud enough to me.

You need to get out more.

[AzShooter]

8 hours ago, jnr88 said:

1. If you can afford it buy a Volquartsen. As good as it gets.

2. Volquartsen makes a lead pulverized to clean their comps. Takes 1 minute.

3. I’m a fan of the CMore slide ride and railway on most anything other than my Volquartsen. If money is no object the SRO with the 5 MOA seems pretty hot. I use the Delta Point Pro 2.5 MOA with no problems.

 The pulverizer from Volquartsen is the best thing there is for cleaning a compensator.  Too bad it only works on their comps.  

 

I run a 12 minute dot on my SlideRide.  I like the ability to change dot size and it only cost $50 to try a different size.

 

The new Mamba is nice and light and extremely accurate.  Makes a great Steel Challenge gun.

[jrdoran]

Very important to try out the RFPO you are thinking about.  I am a very active steel challenge shooter.    I have 84.45% currently in RFPO ( essentially master ) ( RFRO / PCCO - Master ) All in 2020 peak time classifications.

 

I started with a Cabellas purchased SW22 victory and made steady upgrades last year.  I have doubts about the durability of the victory.  My next door neighbor has an almost new Scorpion with a slideride  ( all of my guns have c-more slideride 8 or 12 moa ) ;   So his Scorpion appears to be  perfect for me. Price is not an issue for me.   He offered it to me as he is getting older.  I desperately want to luv this gun given great price and easy purchase and stellar reputation as everyone says.  I shot it in 3 matches and a few practice sessions  this year and I do not shoot equivalent to my victory.  I struggle with the trigger ( measured 2lbs ) , and just don't seem to perform as well.  It is a 6" with no compensator  ( plenty loud ).  It does run all of my ammo flawless and is high quality.   I keep trying to get in sync with it, but no luck.   Who knows, maybe a 4.5" will be better, but I have decided that I will be frustrated for life with this pistol.   Oh well. 

 

So moral of the story is try out different guns to see what works.

Edited June 30, 2020 by jrdoran

[Flageo]

I love my scorpions for steel challenge.  All of mine are the 4.5 barrels.  I have had them in 6 inch - but find the 4.5 much better.  Most of the guys I know that shoot the scorpions like the shorter barrel. 

[nhglyn]

Thanks for all the suggestions.  Moderators please close this post.

[Sarge]

2 hours ago, nhglyn said:

Thanks for all the suggestions.  Moderators please close this post.

Threads don’t generally get closed for no reason. People will comment on this thread 10 years from now.

[Flageo]

Some have inquired about the thumbrest i have on my scorpions with the target style frame.  I gave out the website incorrectly   it is www.tecperformance.com    (not tac)  Great guy to deal with and a quality products.  Makes the thumbrest for the target frame in two different styles.

[drysideshooter]

I currently have 3 RFPO set ups.  One is a Volquartsen Scorpion 4.5", one is a Volquartsen target frame with a Pac-Lite 4.5" with Volquartsen bolt,  and one is a Ruger MK III frame with upgraded trigger with a fluted Pac-Lite 4.5" with Ruger bolt.  All 3 have Cmore railways. 

 

The Scorpion was not reliable at first. It would run with a Ruger bolt, but not the bolt that came with it. Customer service from Volquartsen was great. They sent me another bolt and it's been reliable ever since as long as I run the bolt somewhat wet.    My favorite, by a small margin over the Scorpion, is the Volquartsen target frame with the Pac-Lite.  It's lighter than the Scorpion and extremely reliable.  The Mark III frame with Pac-Lite is also very reliable.  

 

The suggestion to try as many different guns as you can is a good one. Certain grip angles and ergonomics work better for some shooters.  

[zzt]

On 6/30/2020 at 10:04 AM, jrdoran said:

I desperately want to luv this gun given great price and easy purchase and stellar reputation as everyone says.  I shot it in 3 matches and a few practice sessions  this year and I do not shoot equivalent to my victory.  I struggle with the trigger ( measured 2lbs ) , and just don't seem to perform as well.  It is a 6" with no compensator  ( plenty loud ).  It does run all of my ammo flawless and is high quality.   I keep trying to get in sync with it, but no luck.

 

I sympathize.   Been there: done that.  I had a Scorpion that I bought just after their second barrel came out.  It went back to the factory three times to correct issues (trigger, safety, etc.).  Each time it came back the same or worse.  Their QC was not very good at the time.  I eventually gave up and sold the pistol.

 

Having shot steel with a Hi Standard 107 Supermatic, the Scorpion, a full race Buckmark, a Harmmerli X-Ese Sport and my Precision Marvel Unit One on my 1911 45 receiver I can say they all were deficient in some way.  The Buckmark came closest to being perfect.  The Unit One worked as long as you cleaned the barrel, chamber and ramp at least once during an 8 stage match.  I still sometimes bring the Unit One as a backup.

 

Three years ago I ordered a CWA custom upper, put it on a 1911 45 receiver and have shot it ever since.  It is bullseye accurate and runs 100% with CCI AR Tactical 22.

[motosapiens]

On 6/30/2020 at 5:14 AM, Hammer002 said:

 

I have done the same, and they are better.  The conversation here is more from a competitor point of view maybe.  As a competitor, ok anything resembling a serious competitor or anyone who cares about their scores and not having to reshoot, should be running a comp.  Even with the AMG I would still highly recommend it.  The AMG has the other side of the issue where it is sensitive enough to pick other things up as well if not put on the perfect setting for that gun at that time.  Otherwise you get something like 9 shots and you don't know which one is the last one.  Its not hard, but not all ROs are aware how to adjust.

 

we shoot steel once or twice a week at local matches most of the year. I have never once had a problem with any timer picking up every shot with 22 pistols. I have had issues with some 22 rifles until I got an AMG timer. Since then I have never picked up an extra shot with that timer (i have the sensitivity about 3/4 of the way up), and I have never missed a shot. I personally don't think a comp is required on a pistol to avoid reshoots unless people are doing it wrong. It seems to me that the firmware logic in the AMG is MUCH better than previous timers, because i literally never pick up anything that isn't an actual shot, and the only time i miss a couple shots is when a pcc shooter is on the other side of a barrel or something in a USPSA stage.

 

Back to the original question, we have 3 pistols we shoot at steel, a nearly stock browning buckmark, a year old ruger mkiv 22-45 (heavy, no comp) with volquartsen trigger kit, and a couple month old volquartsen scorpion (w/ 1port comp). all 3 guns run 100%, but it took the ruger a thousand rounds or so to get to that point. I personally can't tell a significant difference between the ruger and volquartsen. I'll shoot whichever one my wife lets me. I like them both better than browning because the grip angle is 1911 style instead of goofy glock/target/limpwrist style, and because the trigger on the browning is decent but not awesome like volquartsens. Mrs moto made GM with the ruger, and has improved her times a bit with the volquartsen, but she finds the grip to be different enough to cause her some adjustment period. I can switch back and forth between the two without issue, but I'm old, slow, and only an M anyway, so take that for what it's worth.

 

so if you're cheap, get a mkiv (either manly or limpwrist frame) and VQ trigger kit, if you gots money to burn, get a volquartsen (also available in manly or limpwrist frame)

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by motosapiens
corrected model of gun from mamba to scorpion

[Steve RA]

Or get a S&W model 41 and have fun.

[Flageo]

hey drysideshooter    i have several scorpions and shoot them in steel challenge   i have been lubing the bolts with eesox.  After disassembly I clean the bolt first.  After it is clean I rub some eesox on it and let it sit until the rest of the pistol is clean.  The eesox does not stay real oily - it makes the bolt extremely slick.  I have found this to work very well over the years.  A guy that used to post on rimfirecentral always talked about eesox so i thought i would try it - have been using it ever since.

[Hammer002]

14 hours ago, motosapiens said:

 

we shoot steel once or twice a week at local matches most of the year. I have never once had a problem with any timer picking up every shot with 22 pistols. I have had issues with some 22 rifles until I got an AMG timer. Since then I have never picked up an extra shot with that timer (i have the sensitivity about 3/4 of the way up), and I have never missed a shot. I personally don't think a comp is required on a pistol to avoid reshoots unless people are doing it wrong. It seems to me that the firmware logic in the AMG is MUCH better than previous timers, because i literally never pick up anything that isn't an actual shot, and the only time i miss a couple shots is when a pcc shooter is on the other side of a barrel or something in a USPSA stage.

 

WOW man.  That is crazy awesome!  We need to hire you to come do the Level 2 matches, the state matches, the area matches, THE WORLDS!  Holy cow, had we only known there was some guy in Idaho that magically NEVER has an issue, we all could have benefited greatly!!  Hey, send me you number, I will PAY you to come down and run my matches!  It would be absolutely amazing to NEVER have a timer pick up issue.  I am absolutely excited to finally put this issue to bed.  We will NEVER have reshoots again, cause the guy in Idaho has it figured out!  Hell yeah!!  I simply cannot wait to meet you and shake your hand.  Please make yourself available for my level 2 match in October and my Level 3 match in May.  It will be fantastic to see you at Worlds too!!  What a revolutionary to the sport!  THANK YOU.  THANK YOU.  THANK YOU.  Wait till everyone hears Mark Weaver has it all figured out!

 

Ok, seriously, all joking aside, I never looked at your name until just now. I actually know who you are.  Great shooter!  And I am just poking at you.  We got a couple AMGs early in the year and have loved them.  They havent been "perfect," but a huge improvement.  We ordered enough for the club to go exclusive all AMG times.  This is going to be a bit of a selling point for our majors, because when paired with the tablets, everyone can download all the times, splits, first shot times, and a bunch of other info they can compare to everyone else.  And the guy that makes them is wonderful to deal with.  So they really are amazing.  But not perfect.  You still got to pay attention to them and what they are picking up or not.

 

On topic - I still highly recommend, no matter what anyone says, if you care about your times as a serious competitor, you must run a comp on rimfire.  There isn't a competitive minded gun built without one.  They dont really help with muzzle rise, but they DEFINITELY assure your times are being heard by the timer.  Some of us put far too much time, effort, and money into especially large matches to have timer discrepancies.  Especially if its a situation we could have actually controlled ourselves.  If you are just messing around at locals, whatever.  But as soon as you start to care about your times, its time to make all assurances in your equipment that it works on ALL levels 100 percent.  

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, Hammer002 said:

 

WOW man.  That is crazy awesome!  We need to hire you to come do the Level 2 matches, the state matches, the area matches, THE WORLDS!  Holy cow, had we only known there was some guy in Idaho that magically NEVER has an issue, we all could have benefited greatly!!  Hey, send me you number, I will PAY you to come down and run my matches!  It would be absolutely amazing to NEVER have a timer pick up issue.  I am absolutely excited to finally put this issue to bed.  We will NEVER have reshoots again, cause the guy in Idaho has it figured out!  Hell yeah!!  I simply cannot wait to meet you and shake your hand.  Please make yourself available for my level 2 match in October and my Level 3 match in May.  It will be fantastic to see you at Worlds too!!  What a revolutionary to the sport!  THANK YOU.  THANK YOU.  THANK YOU.  Wait till everyone hears Mark Weaver has it all figured out!

 

Ok, seriously, all joking aside, I never looked at your name until just now. I actually know who you are.  Great shooter!  And I am just poking at you.  We got a couple AMGs early in the year and have loved them.  They havent been "perfect," but a huge improvement.  We ordered enough for the club to go exclusive all AMG times.  This is going to be a bit of a selling point for our majors, because when paired with the tablets, everyone can download all the times, splits, first shot times, and a bunch of other info they can compare to everyone else.  And the guy that makes them is wonderful to deal with.  So they really are amazing.  But not perfect.  You still got to pay attention to them and what they are picking up or not.

 

On topic - I still highly recommend, no matter what anyone says, if you care about your times as a serious competitor, you must run a comp on rimfire.  There isn't a competitive minded gun built without one.  They dont really help with muzzle rise, but they DEFINITELY assure your times are being heard by the timer.  Some of us put far too much time, effort, and money into especially large matches to have timer discrepancies.  Especially if its a situation we could have actually controlled ourselves.  If you are just messing around at locals, whatever.  But as soon as you start to care about your times, its time to make all assurances in your equipment that it works on ALL levels 100 percent.  

 

lol. as you say, I am truly awesome.....   one of the things I am used to doing from working level III and national uspsa matches is to keep half an eye on the timer (esp with pcc's) to make sure I know where it has to be to pick up shots. I do the same thing at steel. If you hold the timer in the right place and pay a little attention, there is no reason for reshoots due to shots being missed. Unfortunately, some people are not awesome, or don't care, and sometimes those people RO matches. Proper technique only works if you use it.

Edited July 3, 2020 by motosapiens

[Hammer002]

2 hours ago, motosapiens said:

 

lol. as you say, I am truly awesome.....   one of the things I am used to doing from working level III and national uspsa matches is to keep half an eye on the timer (esp with pcc's) to make sure I know where it has to be to pick up shots. I do the same thing at steel. If you hold the timer in the right place and pay a little attention, there is no reason for reshoots due to shots being missed. Unfortunately, some people are not awesome, or don't care, and sometimes those people RO matches. Proper technique only works if you use it.

 

I do the same thing.  I hold it out in front of me kinda in my peripheral where I am able to watch the shooter, gun, plates, and timer simultaneously.  I see too many USPSA only shooting ROs hold the timer behind people's heads or other things not allowing the timer to get shots.  We are only so awesome on some days.  Don't be beggin for gremlins!  

[Hoops]

On 6/28/2020 at 6:41 AM, AzShooter said:

I have a Bill Stripling thumb rest on my Mark IV 22/45 that works real well.

I found this older post.

 

Is the Precision Target Pistol grip shown just the magwell attachment?

 

Thanks,

 

Hoops

[apoc4lypse]

From the looks of that I'd say the grip panels and magwell are both 3d printed so they are a single piece, printed as two halves.

[AzShooter]

It's all one piece.  Grips flair out on bottom for the mag well.

 

[Les Snyder]

I've always enjoyed building my own competition firearms... while I do have a M41 and Citation, the ability to easily clean a .22lr has always been a challenge.... emphasis on easy... the addition of a Ruger MkIV changed that, with easy access to the bolt face and chamber area... really nothing to build, just a little parts changing... TK Striplin thumb flaps, VQ trigger upgrade, VQ lightweight spring set, Holosun 510 jumbo tron, and a barrel weight

Edited September 24, 2021 by Les Snyder

[MuayThaiJJ]

Always a good workout shooting plates with this:

 

Faster, lighter, not as accurate:

[xoperator]

On the Quest to "B" I have shot a Marvel (too finickey but accurate), a S&W Model 41 (Clark Barrel & RTS2 8MOA) and a Hammerli (Walther) Xesse IPSC. Hammerli licks all others including Sig Trailside (earlier Xesse). Rugers? Had 3, need too much to get "right" (IMHO). VQ? Nice,but  not a Hammerli. Not by a long shot... Souped up Chevy vs. an Aston Martin...

 

Xesse beats them all. Lighter at the muzzle, better mags, eats much more variability. Took a Walther Pic Rib, machined it to go over the Slide, rear mounted RTS2 (8MOA) for better field of view.

 

Only issue is Hygiene. Needs to be clean. Must remove rib toghet "in there"... Swapped OEM Rib Screws (M4Hex) with M4 Torx SS. Else, more reliable than all others. Eats Eley Target, CCI SV, Federal AutoMatch (favorite), CCI Tac, Rem Target and Thunderbolt (stiff shooting), Leave the Winnies at home...

 

15k rounds through it. A sewing machine...

[TRUBL]

GET THIS AND ALL YOU NEED IS AN OPTIC.....EVERYTHING ELSE IS DONE!!

https://www.browning.com/products/firearms/pistols/buck-mark/buck-mark-plus-vision-americana-suppressor-ready.html?fbclid=IwAR2BG9edvIpIxswxq_IENC-ukQJSCjTUtO-cp7qqh9xHU8-cTEqF5zBc5x4

Edited March 28, 2022 by TRUBL

[Philip Dedmon]

Marvel Precision Unit 1 on your single stack frame

[dtsdave]

I also run a unit 1 and I really like it.  I use the GSG magazines and I only load 9 rounds per mag.  However I am very new to steel challenge and have only shot it with an optic in 1 match.  I have shot thousands of rounds at the range.  I am B in PCC and RFRO and made C in RFPO in the 1 match I shot.  Hope to make B this weekend if I can.