Limited Minor

[HCH]

So, after reading the replies to this thread, I have confirmed some of my previous options as to why a guy might shoot Limited Minor:

 

1: This is what I have and I want to shoot. 

2: I have a 9mm, don’t want to make all those reloads during a stage,  don’t want to mess with a dot, and don’t really care about competing beyond level 1/level 2 matches. 

 

But what I don’t understand is competitor number 3:  

 

I like the sport; I practice both dry fire and live fire; and I’m willing to buy a new gun to complete with... but I really don’t want to load ammo or buy .40. 

 

Maybe there is just a lot more crossover between 2 and 3 than I realize. 

 

[nasty618]

10 hours ago, ziebart said:

Major is an advantage, but not 20% like someone posted. Use the competitor app and change yourself to major or minor. Most people I've done it with see 5 to 8% change from 9mm minor to major. That button click doesn't factor the 2 or 3 less rounds or higher recoil. 

 

It's probably not 20%, i agree.  But besides the recoil, the pure math of the Practiscore app does not (and cannot) take into account the personal strategy behind shooting major vs minor power factors.  For example, how the aiming zone on open targets becomes much larger for major PF and how much more important shooting alphas becomes for minor PF.  Former allows (and practically requires, in order to be competitive) major to shoot much faster and with a less precise sight picture, not caring about charlies at all or even deltas as much.  Latter forces minor to shoot more alphas since you dont have the time to make up charlies but they DO hurt your score a good deal and deltas can become killers of scores, even if you dont shoot any penalties.  So in a way, you have to "slow down and get your hits" .  I dont think this is fully understood by most shooters, even at higher levels. 

 

TLDR, just changing PF in the app for a minor shooter is only painting half of the picture.

 

10 hours ago, ziebart said:

I've seen people make GM shooting minor because if you aren't shooting alphas then it doesn't really matter on the classifiers.

 

One can shoot an M and even GM classifier with a mike in minor PF .  Charlies with major PF, especially on high HF stages like classifiers, simply do not matter. 

[mwx40x40]

On 6/13/2020 at 10:28 PM, Styro said:

Lol not by a long shot

Not dying like L10, Revo, or Maybe even SS. But I can remember when signing up for a Level II matches in the Southeast , Production and Limited would be almost equally attended, with Limited typically being the largest group. 
Take 2020 Ga State for instance, currently only 16 in Production,6 in SS, Revo 3

Limted 35, CO 52

CO definitely a growing segment pulling not only Production shooters, but some Limited as well . Not complaining,just observation and kind of interesting how the sport continues to evolve.

[SGT_Schultz]

On 6/13/2020 at 10:21 PM, teros135 said:

Production is dying out?

 

 

In my are of the country Production is on the ropes

 

My next scheduled match is on this coming Sunday.  There are 23 CO shooters and 7 Production shooters signed up.  When CO started those numbers were reversed.

 

And it's not just that one data point.  I've been tracking the numbers of Production and CO in my area over the years and there has been a seismic shift from mid 19 to now.

 

So as far as I'm concerned Production is dead

 

That said I still don't get the reloading hatred

[Stafford]

I shot my first match last summer in Limited Major because I had a Glock 22 and .40 ammo on hand. Then I realized quickly that a stock G22 wasn't really competitive in Limited and that you might as well shoot Minor and focus on good hits and saving money on ammo. So, I alternated between an M&P9 and a Glock 17, both stock in LImited Minor.

 

At some point, I decided that I preferred to shoot 9mm and I wasn't going to reload. And I had tried out a Shadow 2 and decided that was the gun I wanted to purchase. With those decisions made, I moved to Production. And then I realized, no one else was shooting Production. Last weekend, there were 84 entries at a match and only 6 were in Production. Everyone is shooting Carry Optics, Limited, and PCC. And then, you'll find Production, Open, SS, etc...

 

I've gone back and looked as the small number of matches I've shot in. Limited Minor is probably as well represented as Production in the number of shooters. I could flip flop between divisions and probably increase my overall match score by shooting Limited  Minor since I would go a bit faster.  

[mcmmotorsports]

I currently shoot CO but played around at some fun matches with iron sights. Shadow 2 and most recently, an Atlas Titan in 9mm. I would LOVE to get a 2011 and would LOVE to stay with 9mm but I would get my arse handed to me even more if I attempted to shoot Limited Minor. I don’t currently reload but may in the future. The PF in USPSA also would hurt two of my friends with Atlas 9mm guns if they ever wanted to do any of those matches. I understand why they do it, just don’t like it. 

[SGT_Schultz]

4 hours ago, Stafford said:

I shot my first match last summer in Limited Major because I had a Glock 22 and .40 ammo on hand. Then I realized quickly that a stock G22 wasn't really competitive in Limited and that you might as well shoot Minor and focus on good hits and saving money on ammo. So, I alternated between an M&P9 and a Glock 17, both stock in LImited Minor.

 

At some point, I decided that I preferred to shoot 9mm and I wasn't going to reload. And I had tried out a Shadow 2 and decided that was the gun I wanted to purchase. With those decisions made, I moved to Production. And then I realized, no one else was shooting Production. Last weekend, there were 84 entries at a match and only 6 were in Production. Everyone is shooting Carry Optics, Limited, and PCC. And then, you'll find Production, Open, SS, etc...

 

I've gone back and looked as the small number of matches I've shot in. Limited Minor is probably as well represented as Production in the number of shooters. I could flip flop between divisions and probably increase my overall match score by shooting Limited  Minor since I would go a bit faster.  

Get the slide cut for a red dot and move on.

[Stafford]

I guess I could play with my G22 and add a plug and magwell, target sights, base pads, and hang a light on the rail. But, aside from the extra cost, it seems like sort of a hassle. The simplicity of the Shadow 2 really appealed to me. I originally shot Limited so I wouldn’t have to change mags as often and “stage plan”. But in most cases, you just reload whenever you move. Other parts of planning would be required regardless of which division.

[Talon75]

I shoot Lim Minor, playing with the practiscore app and comparing my last three matches IF I had shot major . All three were within 5% on score, one match I would have gained 2 spots(21st-19th, level 2 match), another was zero change(4th- local) in finish . I primarily shoot like a Major shooter, not slowing down for accuracy, and have my fair share of mikes and deltas because of it . I won't worry about major till I am closer to the top on a regular basis and losing a position or two is more important to me(may never happen really!) .  Bring on the 24 round all paper stages, my favorites!!

Edited June 16, 2020 by Talon75

[mcmmotorsports]

12 minutes ago, Talon75 said:

I shoot Lim Minor, playing with the practiscore app and comparing my last three matches IF I had shot major . All three were within 5% on score, one match I would have gained 2 spots(21st-19th, level 2 match), another was zero change(4th- local) in finish . I primarily shoot like a Major shooter, not slowing down for accuracy, and have my fair share of mikes and deltas because of it . I won't worry about major till I am closer to the top on a regular basis and losing a position or two is more important to me(may never happen really!) .  Bring on the 24 round all paper stages, my favorites!!

Nice!

[dansedgli]

If you are missing and shooting D's then shooting minor is not your issue.

[mcmmotorsports]

10 minutes ago, dansedgli said:

If you are missing and shooting D's then shooting minor is not your issue.

 

[Talon75]

37 minutes ago, dansedgli said:

If you are missing and shooting D's then shooting minor is not your issue.

I said my fair share, although the local I just shot I had 7 mikes( Damn strong hand weakhand classifier got me for 3), still 4th out of 25 or so, I wasn't happy having that many but the sun still came out on Sunday!! I'm a strong C class field course shooter!!

Edited June 17, 2020 by Talon75

[HCH]

I won Limited at the last club match I shot. Swapping myself  to Minor, the second place shooter went from 79% to 88%. 

[zzt]

I shot a match last Sunday with a bunch of good shooters.  Here are the eleven top finishers:

 

1:  GM CO minor

2:  GM Limited major

3:  M CO minor

4:  GM PCC minor

5:  B Limited major

6:  B  CO minor

7:  A CO minor

8:  M CO minor

9:  M Limited major

10:  A  CO minor

11:  B Open major

 

FWIW, one of the M CO shooters carries a GM in Limited major.  My take away from this is it is speed and shot placement that wins matches, not necessarily major or minor.  The 1 and 2 shooters shot the same scores.  1 was 10 seconds faster.  #3 was 10 seconds faster than 1, but shot fewer A, had 7 Mikes and 2 NS.

Edited June 18, 2020 by zzt

[CClassForLife]

Major scoring is roughly the same advantage as putting on a dot.

 

The 2019 Sig CO & Limited HI-CAP National results for reference.

 

By extension, Open shooters benefit from both and you see another 5-10%+ in match points.

[Stafford]

On 6/14/2020 at 5:37 AM, Brooke said:

 Optics for slide ride are awful I went through two DPP Pros and a RTS2 in three months on a milled Shadow and quit CO forever. 

 

Can you explain, "Optics for slide ride are awful". I assume that your optics were destroyed as a result of being installed on your slide?

 

Have others had similar problems?

[Stafford]

On 6/14/2020 at 5:37 AM, Brooke said:

 Optics for slide ride are awful I went through two DPP Pros and a RTS2 in three months on a milled Shadow and quit CO forever. 

 

Can you explain, "Optics for slide ride are awful". I assume that your optics were destroyed as a result of being installed on your slide?

 

Have others had similar problems?

[MustangMan]

I shoot Limited Minor, I do so because 3 gun is my main game and USPSA is just shot as practice and fun so I use my 3 gun pistol. When I don't have any big 3 gun matches coming up I sometimes swap my slide for a red dot slide and play in CO.

 

 

[risingsun]

Out of curiosity, this is a snapshot of a (full) match I'm shooting this coming weekend. I think there are a healthy number of Limited minor shooters in my area. Assumption: very few Open shooters shoot minor.

 

 

 

[zzt]

There used to be a LOT of Open minor shooters before CO came on the scene.  Almost all were old and needed a dot to aim.  Some still shoot Open minor, but a lot switched to CO.

[HCH]

On 6/29/2020 at 12:50 PM, risingsun said:

Out of curiosity, this is a snapshot of a (full) match I'm shooting this coming weekend. I think there are a healthy number of Limited minor shooters in my area. Assumption: very few Open shooters shoot minor.

 

 

 

 

So out of all the minor shooters, 49 signed up in a Minor-only division. I’d be willing to bet the two revolver shooters (LOL) are shooting Minor. SS is a toss up for Maj/Min. 

 

So, perhaps 15 Limited shooters signed up in Minor. I would really like to know what equipment they show up with classification, etc. Are these Unclassified/D/C shooters? Or are they guys that have dumped a good bit of money into the game. 

[Stafford]

I signed up for Limited Minor for my local match this week. When I went back and looked at squadding, there were 4 Production shooters instead of the usual one or two. So, since there were more shooters this week, I decided to switch and shoot Production instead. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Stafford

[SGT_Schultz]

On 6/29/2020 at 12:26 PM, Stafford said:

Can you explain, "Optics for slide ride are awful". I assume that your optics were destroyed as a result of being installed on your slide?

 

Have others had similar problems?

 

His problem is that he bought junk.

 

Limit yourself to Trijicon and you'll be fine.

[risingsun]

1 hour ago, HCH said:

So, perhaps 15 Limited shooters signed up in Minor. I would really like to know what equipment they show up with classification, etc. Are these Unclassified/D/C shooters? Or are they guys that have dumped a good bit of money into the game. 

 

I think you're on to something. I overlooked the distribution of classes in the divisions. Perhaps this would paint a better picture: