N7VY Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 I have a 650 and I’m having some light primer strikes. I have a da pistol (tanfoglio stock2) so it’s only time wasting having to pull the trigger again or twice more. I’m using CCI primers (I know there the hardest), using an extended firing pin, 14 pound hammer spring and I’ve increased the hammer travel before it releases. I really don’t want to get a 750 or a 1050 to solve this so I’m looking for help. I’ve always used CCI primers so I know I can change but I really don’t want to . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 1 hour ago, N7VY said: I have a 650 and I’m having some light primer strikes. I have a da pistol (tanfoglio stock2) so it’s only time wasting having to pull the trigger again or twice more. I’m using CCI primers (I know there the hardest), using an extended firing pin, 14 pound hammer spring and I’ve increased the hammer travel before it releases. I really don’t want to get a 750 or a 1050 to solve this so I’m looking for help. I’ve always used CCI primers so I know I can change but I really don’t want to . Are your primers high from loading on the 650? If they are that can easily corrected through troubleshooting. If you have to pull the trigger twice more to set off a primer that sounds more like gun issues than press issues. A high primer usually goes off on second strike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HesedTech Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 CCI primers, 14 lb hammer spring in TF S2 and the 650 priming system are not a good combo. You can shim the 650’s bar which pushes against the primer punch to help seat the primers deeper. However even with that mod CCIs are just too hard for less than a 15.5 hammer spring in the TF S2. Make sure your trigger components in the TF are fully polished and sprung according to Memphis Mechanic’s guide, the primers are fully seated and not just flush with the base. Use your caliper to make sure they are at least .03 deep. Search the forum and you l find this topic is well covered. If you want to keep the 14 lb spring use Federal primers. If you can’t find those Winchester is the next choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagi Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 Check the depth of your primers. I can light up my stock 2 with 13lbs hammer spring with cci's. I can even light up wolf primers when I still had them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N7VY Posted May 29, 2020 Author Share Posted May 29, 2020 I just put in a 14 pound spring yesterday and I still have some light strikes. What is the factory spring weight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HesedTech Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 5 hours ago, N7VY said: I just put in a 14 pound spring yesterday and I still have some light strikes. What is the factory spring weight? According to Wolf it’s 16 lbs, but it’s probably more than that. The 15.5 PD spring and a good polish job lowered my DA to 5.5 and SA to 2.2 lbs on my S2. Very reliable with Federal and Winchester primers. CCIs work but have occasional DA failures. BTW Titan Hammer, Bolo, one piece sear, lightened sear and plunger springs, PD firing pin and spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N7VY Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 I put the factory hammer spring in. Boy howdy, that makes the da/sa extremely heavy. I’m going to try the factory firing pin spring (instead of a reduced power spring) and the 14 pound PD hammer spring tomorrow. I’ve polished everything a couple of times so I think that’s ready to go. My da is just at 4 pounds and the sa is at 2 pounds, which for me is great. I went out to my xl650 and put a 0.012 shim under the bracket that the primer plunger uses. Pressing the handle forward till it stops will seat them flush. If I press the handle forward three or four times it seats the primers 0.003 below. I really shouldn’t have to press that handle several times to seat the primers just below flush. does the 750 eliminate this problem or is the only way to get this resolved is a 1050? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HesedTech Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, N7VY said: does the 750 eliminate this problem or is the only way to get this resolved is a 1050? To be honest, having owned a 650 and cranked out close to 20k rounds through it, I believe the only advantage to the 750 is the new priming system and more refined indexing. If you want to be able to truly swage and adjust the primer depth only the 1050/1100 will fit that need. In my opinion the 1050/1100 does three things better than the 650/750, primer pocket swaging, primer seating and speed. You may also break less press parts with the 1050/1100. Answer, no the 750 will probably not eliminate your problem. Edited May 30, 2020 by HesedTech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N7VY Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) Hesed, thanks for your reply. It’s not what I wanted to hear but I haven’t heard anything really better with the xl750. My 650 works for all of my other weapons just not the Tanfo. Having a DA pistol makes the situation workable, it’s just taking time having to make the additional trigger pulls. Non of my other weapons have this issue. I have almost 20k through the press in the last year and a half. It’s a great press. ive also put in an extended length firing pin which helped a lot but not enough. Edited May 30, 2020 by N7VY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddc Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 I have a 650 but haven't experienced any primer seating depth ssues that were not related to the seating ram mechanism backing out. That has happened twice in about six years. Although the 650 doesn't have any slick way of adjusting seating depth I have read of people using a shim somehow to increase the depth. Don't have any specific knowledge or links but my recollection is that the information is out there. Might be worth a search? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Freeman Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Try Federal primers. CCI are the worst for striker fired pistols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furrly Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 The prime seating steam has a spring underneath, once it wears you will have primer seating depth issue.. Dillon will send you a new one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N7VY Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 I shot a steel match this morning and of the 130 rounds used I had two rounds that didn’t go bang right off. This is better than I have been experiencing so maybe I’m headed in the right direction. I will call Dillon on Monday and talk to them about this issue. My Tanfoglio Stock 2 is set up as follows: extended PD firing pin, wolf reduced power firing pin spring and 14 pound hammer spring. I did remove 0.005” from my disconnector which gave me an additional 0.75mm of extended hammer arc. I might remove a bit more as the disconnector is still dragging on the frame but this is an issue for another time. Thank you to all who responded to my query and guided me towards a good outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBlue Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 I was having issues with high primers on my 650 but I figured out a way to fix that problem. I took the plunger assembly apart and found there is a shoulder on the plunger that limits how high it can go, shimming the base plate does not allow it to seat any deeper as it can not go any further due to the shoulder on the plunger. I put the plunger in one of my lathes and cut the shoulder back to allow it to seat the primers deeper, I've not had any high primer issues since...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N7VY Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 Well, that’s a different approach that I haven’t heard of before. I’ll take a look in the morning. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 The factory hammer spring is 17.5-18lbs. The extreme Medium spring is 16ish, and does not stack severely like the factory spring does. It’s the short term answer for CCIs in a 650 with a Tanfoglio. The gun will eat anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N7VY Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 Thank you MM for all your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 (edited) On 5/28/2020 at 10:52 PM, Sarge said: Are your primers high from loading on the 650? If they are that can easily corrected through troubleshooting. If you have to pull the trigger twice more to set off a primer that sounds more like gun issues than press issues. A high primer usually goes off on second strike For a weak DA/SA such as a CZ with a 10.5ish, or a Tanfoglio with a 13-14, a flush primer is a high primer. In most brands of brass, CCIs are truly bottomed out at .004-006” ish below flush, winchesters .007” or so. Roughly. (CCI primers are physically taller than Winchester.) If the primer is merely flush, it’s deep enough for most guns to light it off... but not a gun with a weak double-action strike. This is also why all the revo guys shoot Federals buried deep. Same mechanism, different platform. I ran CCI 550 Magnums in a Tanfo loaded on a 650, and that combo took serious tuning. For the past few years, I’ve been shooting a PPQ with a full power striker spring and CCIs buried 100% of the time on the swage and stuff... er... the 1050. Can’t recall the last time I had primer issues. They get a glance now, versus every round in the hundo inspected carefully. Edited June 2, 2020 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 So.... it is more of a gun issue than a press issue. The press is working properly but the gun springing and hard primers and the press are a bad combo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmans45 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 I have a question about primer depth while you are talking about it . Why would primers not being in deep enough cause it to be a light strike? Seems like if it was sticking out a little it would be more likely to set the primer off because it would have more contact with the drinking pin that if it was deeper and farther away from where the firing pin stops . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intel6 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Primers are two pieces and when the primer is seated to the correct depth it is "set" or "cocked" and then it is ready to get hit by the FP. If it is not seated correctly then it is not set so it doesn't go off when hit. That is why if it goes off with a second hit many times the first hit "set" the primer so the second hit will then set it off. Simplistic explanation but it gets the point across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 3 hours ago, Bmans45 said: I have a question about primer depth while you are talking about it . Why would primers not being in deep enough cause it to be a light strike? Seems like if it was sticking out a little it would be more likely to set the primer off because it would have more contact with the drinking pin that if it was deeper and farther away from where the firing pin stops . Because the primer anvil needs crushed into the primer to set it off. When the primer isn’t seated all the way the FP just seats it’s on first blow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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