What happens to competitors after 5 years?

[waktasz]

It's like that with a lot of hobbies. I came and went from SCCA Autocross, and I know a lot of shooters that also used to be into cars. In rec league hockey you see teams and players come and go, but I also see teams I've been playing against since I was 15 still playing at the same rink every week for the last almost 25 years. Some of them just do it for the exercise and to get out of the house once a week, and some are super competitive. Again, just like shooting, I think.  

[rowdyb]

A hobby should pass the time, not take your time. Competitive shooting takes your time. When people realize that fact, it is easy to walk away, especially looking at the cost/benefit after you get over the hump of gaining decent pistol shooting competency.

[mvmojo]

Not sure how to do a cost/benefit analysis on competitive shooting (or any other hobby).  I'm not a golfer but have always wondered if shooting (say 2+K rounds per month plus private range membership, match fees, travel, etc.) was more or less expensive than what an avid golfer spends on country club membership, greens fees, custom clubs, balls, cart, etc.

[Jeremyc_1999]

For me it is a balance of life and priorities.  A couple of years ago I was introduced to USPSA and went all in.   Last spring I found out my infant son had glaucoma and that took up all of my disposable income. This year I'm really focusing on elk hunting and just shooting one local match a month if it works out.

[obsessiveshooter]

I think 5 years is about the time a person plateaus, if USPSA is not a high priority in their life. At some point, getting better requires more commitment than may be possible, and that hard work will net much smaller gains. So at 5 years, it's understandable to see some drop out who were into it mainly to compete.
The above kinda describes me, but I'll stick around because I think shooting stages is super fun.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Bakerjd]

Dragging up old thread but a lot of this resonates with me. I got out of the Navy and moved back to my home state in late 2015. Kind of lost myself in a few ways. Had a couple big life moments and was just going through the motions of life for about a year. Found USPSA through some people I met at an indoor pistol league and it showed me a whole other side of guns. Mind you I'd never even touched a gun until I was 18 and in bootcamp. The most experience I had was the 1.5 years of being ships security forces on an aircraft carrier. Although I did get to do some really fun running around shooting sim rounds at different schools because of it I had no idea you could even change out parts on a pistol much less what a "race" gun was. Fast forward and now I've been shooting for about 4 years or so. I do it tp meet new friends, see new places and have fun. That's it. I'm a 100% disabled vet and basicly work so I can do this hobbie. Once i found out you could build, change, run around and shoot guns I was hooked. I have a few friends who are more group 3 oriented and sometimes being on the same squad with them gets less fun when they get down on themself for what I think are very minor things. 

[SGT_Schultz]

I started late in life at USPSA.  It was late because for the previous 15 years or so I went all in to other rifle and shotgun shooting sports.

 

I got burned out on those previous sports and because of that I will not be making the same time and money commitments to USPSA as I did to sporting clays and highpower rifle.

[BillChunn]

On 5/20/2020 at 11:55 AM, Sarge said:

But I won’t shoot in the rain, or in the freezing cold. And in extreme heat.

 

 

On 5/20/2020 at 1:00 PM, Bhayden said:

like Sarge, I don’t shoot in the rain or cold. That’s not enjoyable.

This past Sunday, Howell Gun Club had a SC match.  It has just started snowing lightly at the house.  Headed to the range which is 45 minutes away.  The temperature dropped 5 degrees to 24 when I arrived it was snowing heavier.  Waited around to deliver some ammo to @Bakerjd and it started snowing even harder.  Told the registration guy "Pull me out".   Snow is just frozen water that will rust a gun.  Been there, done that, put in the work to get the rusted gun back up and running reliably.  Shooting for me has to be fun.  If it's not fun, I'm not shooting.

 

On 5/21/2020 at 2:44 PM, davidb72 said:

This will be my 5th year as a match director (if we can ever actually have a match) and 7th year as a USPSA member.

 

 I was feeling burned out at the end of last year. Being a match director really ruined my ability to enjoy the matches and try to get better.

The friendships and camaraderie are what keeps me going.

Same here.  Have been the MD for our club 4 different times and the freindships are what keeps bringing me back.  We try and avoid MD burnout by rotating that assignment every 2 years.

 

On 5/23/2020 at 11:13 AM, IHAVEGAS said:

Anybody have any success recovering from burn out?

Yes.  I burned out in Open after getting stuck in A class for what seemed like forever.  Walked away.  Shot NRA Service Rifle for 3 years up to a National level competition and then tried Long Range for another year.  Well most of the 1,000 yard ranges around here are on military bases and after 9/11 access to those was damn near impossible.

 

Returned to USPSA and found that some of the same group of friends were still shooting and stepped back into the MD role.  You have to get some level of internal satisfaction to be part of the organization that runs the match.  It doesn't matter at what level, MD, stats, RO to simply running registration.  

 

BC

[j1b]

On 5/23/2020 at 11:13 AM, IHAVEGAS said:

Anybody have any success recovering from burn out?

To quote Mark Twain (I think it was Mark Twain) "quitting tobacco is easy, I've done it hundreds of times"

 

I've quit shooting more times than I can count but almost always come back.

 

When I first started I was super competitive. And saw limited success. I was also in college and after graduating it was just clear to me that in order to have the life I thought I wanted I needed to go and get a job. Get life going. There were also some personal challenges with the group I was shooting with that made the decision to move on from shooting easier. For a long time it had been about being competitive and it was my social network. At that time, the social network was less appealing to me (for personal reasons)

 

I shot off and on after that, riding the coat tails of earlier success. 

 

My wife and family never got in the way of shooting. They were always supportive. But we also had a crap ton of weekend activities with soccer and social stuff. So it just slipped on the priority chart. And as someone said - I picked up other hobbies that I loved and had fun with - riding bikes, got my private pilot's license, scuba diving, knife making, archery, hunting (I'd hunted a ton in my youth, but not through my middle years). And yes, some shooting intermittently. 

 

Today I enjoy the shooting for what it is. A chance to get outside, shoot with some people I really like, and maybe have a good match. I'm not competitive anymore but every now and again I can string a run together. Like others have said = I try my damdest to not shoot cold or wet. I can do hot.

 

If I look at my "cycle" I'd say one year my name would be on a scoresheet and then a two or three years would go by, and then I'd show up again. The last two years have been the first time I've shot several years in a row in a very long time. 

[Bakerjd]

I wanted to add that one of the bigger things that keeps me coming back is the huge range of people you meet. I've met people from all walks of life while. From people who shot 20 years ago and have crazy stories from years past to young kids who are striving for GM, people from all over the world and everything in between. The best part is everyone for the most part, there is always that 1%, is extremely friendly and supportive of each other. It's very cool to me that I got to shoot a match with J.J. Racaza, or the multiple matches I've shot with team Infinity shooters. Most sports you never get to hang out/play with the top level competitors. 

[floater]

Started in 1999, then 2004 had kids, kids cost money. 2016 got back into it. Very few from when I started still shoot. I have met a lot of new friends, but I do miss most of the old timers that got me started.

[MikeyScuba]

Just over 3 years in.  Wife and I both shoot and junior moved out 2 years ago so lots of time.  
Covid lockdown liberal madness is going to mess (ie stop dead) our travel to the US for ICORE revo shooting this year so planning on shooting IPSC open locally.  New guns are always fun and the dot (new to me) is SO MUCH FUN.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by MikeyScuba

[mchapman]

18 minutes ago, MikeyScuba said:

 so planning on shooting IPSC open locally.  New guns are always fun and the dot (new to me) is SO MUCH FUN.

 

 

Mike does ipsc have a spot for open revo?

[Nik Habicht]

I it it hard and heavy for five years, shooting local matches most weekends, hitting Sectionals, Areas, and Nationals four years in a row - then got laid off from my job as my industry was literally dying, and moved out of NJ - where I had competed with my friends the most.  Shot less the next couple of years while attending nursing school, then just bogged down trying to get a new career off the ground; also made the decision not to shoot any more matches in NJ, which really cut down on one of the attractions: Shooting matches with friends.  Shot a few local matches in 2019; planned to shoot a few more in 2020, but COVID happened.  So, maybe this year is it - but I doubt I'll be as committed about the sport as I was in the early years of the Millenium.  Too much else going on.....

[Brooke]

On 5/27/2020 at 7:34 PM, mvmojo said:

Not sure how to do a cost/benefit analysis on competitive shooting (or any other hobby).  I'm not a golfer but have always wondered if shooting (say 2+K rounds per month plus private range membership, match fees, travel, etc.) was more or less expensive than what an avid golfer spends on country club membership, greens fees, custom clubs, balls, cart, etc.

I'm not sure shooting is any more expensive than any other popular hobby. it's hard to comprehend because it depends on how each person chooses to play.  If you want to belong to a country club with multiple thousands of dollars in initiation and dues I guarantee golf has the the highest potential for being #1 in cost. If you play a municipal course with decent clubs it is cheap by comparison unless you hit an astronomical number of balls in the water..

 

Fishing obviously is the same. Fish in the surf or out of a rowboat in creeks and its cheap. Fish whatever kinds of tournaments (bass for me) and you need the blings and extremely expensive boats and electronics. I won't even tell you how much I spent.

 

Shooting the same. Depends on what you choose to shoot and how much you choose to spend traveling.

 

Unfortunately shooting has one thing unto itself. Busts and booms that deprive people of needed supplies. Its caused by an underfunded, non technical, greedy ammunition industry that won't spend capital on capacity and has nearly a monopoly on supplies at least in the US.  Government would never tolerate this industry consolidation in other industries but a lot of government loves seeing the shooting industry shoot itself. It is entertaining.

 

This my second bloom shortage and Im done with it.  Freak Vista Outdoors. Make all the videos you want but it's clear you're perfectly happy with short term profits and don't give crap about longer term profits.

 

This current situation is going to have lasting effects on competitive shooting. Looking at various surveys over time it's pretty clear that the majority of participants are having fun with their friends not trying to compete, practice and get better. They will go on to other hobbies and won't return. I can't claim to be worth a crap at shooting but I try, I practice to the tune of 30-40K rounds a year. I'm worn out on this capacity manipulation Im done. Fishing is really fun and I never saw something like this happen. So hello bass, I'm back, you're safe again.

 

I expect the "don't let the door hit you in the ass" responses. Go ahead. The sport will be damaged for years by this. With out the diehards like me it becomes hard to afford expensive high level matches. Everybody including the ammo and gun industries will regret this very soon.

[BillChunn]

34 minutes ago, Brooke said:

Fishing is really fun and I never saw something like this happen. So hello bass, I'm back, you're safe again.

Now that right there is funny..... and I don't even fish...

 

36 minutes ago, Brooke said:

I expect the "don't let the door hit you in the ass" responses. Go ahead. The sport will be damaged for years by this. With out the diehards like me it becomes hard to afford expensive high level matches. Everybody including the ammo and gun industries will regret this very soon.

 

Well this response is not "don't let the door hit you in the ass" because in the past I did the same thing.  Even went one step further and sold all my USPSA competition guns and left.

 

This sport, or actually almost any sport / hobby, is transitory.  People come and go.  Some come back and some leave permanently for a wide variety of reasons.  But I agree with @Brooke because the same thing happened when the last Democratic president was elected.  Firearms, ammunition and component sales went through the roof, but the level of gouging going on now is friggin' unreal. 

 

Those of us that remember what happened vowed to never get in that situation again.  We bought when ammo and components were available and we could afford it, then stacked everything deep.  We also remember the companies that raised their prices and screwed over customers.  To this day, I won't spend a red cent with them.  CTD jumps to mind and I smile when their daily e-mail messages arrive, knowing I'm costing them money (OK, maybe a couple of pennies) to be on their mailing list.  Cheap thrills... 

 

From a business aspect, USPSA cannot exist based on just the GM and M class competitors.  If they were the only people showing up at matches, almost every club in the country would fold.  USPSA runs on the B and C classes who @Sarge calls the "supporting" shooters.  They are the ones that make up the majority of the L1 and L2 matches.  Those folks are the bread and butter.  

 

If people like @Brooke keep leaving and are not replaced by others because they can't get ammunition at an affordable price, match participation will fall and so will USPSA's income.  Here in Michigan, it's already happening.  The indoor January match which is limited to 39 competitors on Sunday didn't fill.  Some people have even disappeared from practice.  On a normal Tuesday night, we would get upwards of 13-15 people.  This week it was 7.

 

Not a good sign for clubs that have huge plans to build 8, 10, 12 new bays and expect to pay that expense back in a year or two.

 

BC

 

 

[MikeyScuba]

8 hours ago, mchapman said:

Mike does ipsc have a spot for open revo?

Nope.  Probably putting the wheelguns in storage for 2021.  Icore up here is dead as most of the shooters are too covid high risk and  scared ****less and won’t show up for a match.  They didn’t last year. IPSC revo was fun last year but lonely lol.

And we won’t be seeing any of you either.  There is now your new 10 day quarantine on arrival in the US , several covid tests and the  new 14 day HOTEL quarantine at your expense when we get home.  You used to be able to quarantine at home.
We are essentially prisoners in our own country.

[mchapman]

4 hours ago, MikeyScuba said:

Nope.  Probably putting the wheelguns in storage for 2021.  Icore up here is dead as most of the shooters are too covid high risk and  scared ****less and won’t show up for a match.  They didn’t last year. IPSC revo was fun last year but lonely lol.

And we won’t be seeing any of you either.  There is now your new 10 day quarantine on arrival in the US , several covid tests and the  new 14 day HOTEL quarantine at your expense when we get home.  You used to be able to quarantine at home.
We are essentially prisoners in our own country.

This whole situation really sucks.

[ltdmstr]

6 hours ago, Brooke said:

Unfortunately shooting has one thing unto itself. Busts and booms that deprive people of needed supplies. Its caused by an underfunded, non technical, greedy ammunition industry that won't spend capital on capacity and has nearly a monopoly on supplies at least in the US.  Government would never tolerate this industry consolidation in other industries but a lot of government loves seeing the shooting industry shoot itself. It is entertaining.

 

This is simply not true.  It's an industry with low barriers to entry, and if it made sense, lots of other companies would jump in.  The reality is, it's a low margin boom and bust business, and that doesn't attract investment.  And with the federal, state and local government and major corporations now focusing on ESG, it's going to be even less attractive.  I agree that the ammo and component shortages make the sport less attractive, and are problematic.  But the ammo companies aren't the ones causing the problem.

[j1b]

39 minutes ago, ltdmstr said:

 

This is simply not true.  It's an industry with low barriers to entry, and if it made sense, lots of other companies would jump in.  The reality is, it's a low margin boom and bust business, and that doesn't attract investment.  And with the federal, state and local government and major corporations now focusing on ESG, it's going to be even less attractive.  I agree that the ammo and component shortages make the sport less attractive, and are problematic.  But the ammo companies aren't the ones causing the problem.

I too believe this is closer to the truth. We gripe about ammo companies not making investments during the booms but traditionally it's not like the ammo business is high margin. And it's very price elastic, again during normal times. Most companies are smart to not build the church for Easter morning. And I believe that's where most ammo companies are at. Build capacity to a sustainable business level. When booms hit, maximize as best you can. When troughs hit (and they do) protect margin as best you can. But don't build for all the stars lining up or you'll simply go broke. 

[Intheshaw1]

7 hours ago, j1b said:

I too believe this is closer to the truth. We gripe about ammo companies not making investments during the booms but traditionally it's not like the ammo business is high margin. And it's very price elastic, again during normal times. Most companies are smart to not build the church for Easter morning. And I believe that's where most ammo companies are at. Build capacity to a sustainable business level. When booms hit, maximize as best you can. When troughs hit (and they do) protect margin as best you can. But don't build for all the stars lining up or you'll simply go broke. 

I completely agree. When ammo was crazy cheap a few years, the manufacturers were probably running at close to break even. And even if they wanted to expand, it's not like the machines to make primers and bullets can jump online in a week or a month, it takes time.

 

So it's likely they will add some machines, prices will come down in a year or two and people will still not learn the lesson and be crying at the next shortage.

 

But I do agree, we may lose some shooters but with record gun sales I think there is an opportunity to attract a lot of new shooters in the next few years. 

 

As far as burnout, it happens with everything. I'm someone who cycles in and out of hobbies, usually shooting, golf, guitar, woodworking, or whatever new thing I'm interested in. Hobbies for me are just that, something to pass the time and enjoy doing. 

[Brooke]

8 hours ago, Intheshaw1 said:

And even if they wanted to expand, it's not like the machines to make primers and bullets can jump online in a week or a month, it takes time.

Only in the US. It used to take 12-18 months to build a prototype, non hardened molding tool in this country. China will deliver prototype parts for a new product in 4-6 weeks. Primer manufacturing is a simple process that does not require a lot of space or capital. It does handle explosive, impact sensitive material but industry successfully delivers many dangerous to manufacture products. It requires engineering skill to make it safe. I worked in such facilities for 36 years. There were incidents normally operator error but no one ever got seriously hurt.

 

But I agree in the US where short term term profits are king the long term viability of manufacturers doesn't matter. Reap it now. Screw it later is the philosophy of business school grads.

 

And you are right, hobbies are volatile. People come and go regularly but when they become a nuisance people go faster than they come and tell others about it. Shooting is fun until it is not. The sport will be years recovering from this. Thats too bad. I like it but I do not need aggravation..

 

This appears to be a US problem. Look on line and Canada seems to have primers of US manufacturers that they won't (or can not) ship to the US. Foreign manufacturers like Fiocchi and S&B have disappeared from the market. Yet I don't read anything about their products being in short supply in other countries. Are they? 

 

No matter the answers I'm done. I wish you all the best of luck. This is horse s#!t and the industry makes videos about how hard they work LOL

[-JCN-]

Dunno. People are creative and motivated. 
 

Keep moving forward. 
 

Millions of new shooters are a new market. 
 

USPSA might look different with loss of @Brooke types. And might look very different in the future. 
 

But if the sport is creative and motivated it’ll work out. Whether there are “just for fun” Airsoft divisions so people can still work on their footwork and gaming or 22LR divisions with sub minor scoring. 
 

Adapt or die. I’d argue that the ammo manufacturers ARE thinking of long term instead of short term.