Chasing recoil...gun selection question (x5 legion or shadow 2)

[laughinginlast]

Been a lurker for a while but am posting to hopefully get some clarification or advice. Basically, I'm torn between the X5 Legion and Shadow 2...more so, which is a flatter shooter with less muzzle climb.

 

I shot a Glock 34 in IDPA/USPSA for about five years, and when I started hand loading I switched to a Dan Wesson PM-9. With my reloads (147 blue bullets/3.0gn of alliant sport pistol), it is shockingly soft shooting with virtually zero muzzle flip/climb. Frankly it really does compare to a 22 pistol in terms of recoil/flatness. I love shooting this gun and have no complaints with it whatsoever...sort of.

 

 The problem is I've recently started shooting 2-Gun/3-Gun a lot and the capacity of the 1911 has been a major handicap. My initial thought was to go to a 2011 so I tried some of my reloads in a friends Sti Edge, and frankly, the recoil was noticeably snappier/pronounced. We swapped mainspring/recoil spring as well but I'm guessing the lesser weight of the 2011 is to blame. Fast forward, I'm now considering trying an X5 Legion (handled one at gun store, trigger was fine for me, liked the weight) and a Shadow 2. My thought process is the extra weight of the Shadow 2 and lower bore axis would make it the softer shooting of the two (leaning towards the SA only version), but wasn't sure. 

 

Is there anyone with experience with single stack 9mm 1911's who have shot and/or own the X5 Legion or Shadow 2 and can weigh in on the recoil/smoothness between them? For what it's worth, the optic capability of the X5 is nice but not a deciding factor, legitimately only care for the flatter shooting of the two. I have buddy willing to sell is Shadow 2 for the cost of a new X5 Legion so the price comparison is non issue as well. My other thought was to go back to 34 for 2gun/3gun, but when you add in gun, trigger, sights, etc. I feel like your at the cost of the other two options. While there is something to be said for the ability to "drive" the lighter Glock and I do miss it to a degree, my times have benefited more from the flatter recoil.

 

Sorry for long ass post but thank you in advance.

Edited May 18, 2020 by laughinginlast

[B_RAD]

Man,..... it’s gonna be all personal preference. 
 

Everyone is different. Shoot them both (if you haven’t already) and pick the one you like the best. 

 

Now,.......here’s the part where I tell you to stick with what you’ve already got.  The gun isn’t holding you back. seriously I wouldn’t choose a gun based on which is softer/flatter. Pick the one that is the easiest for you to shoot at speed and accurate!  The speed part doesn’t mean flat and has zero to do with soft and the accuracy is probably the more important thing to focus on in my opinion. 

 

 

Good luck. 

Edited May 18, 2020 by B_RAD

[Racinready300ex]

I think people put to much stock in soft and flat. That said, a X5 is probably similar in weight you your 1911 so recoil may not feel drastically different. I'm running a x5 it seems fine to me. But I switched to CO from shooting 40 major so my perception might be skewed. 

 

I would imagine the S2 will be softer and flatter. You can also add some brass grips and/or brass base pads etc to get them up north of 50 oz. Should be the ultimate softness and flatness if that is your thing.

[Jonesjohnm]

I actually worked through this with these two guns myself about 8 months ago when I started shooting carry optics division. The idea you’re chasing here is the idea of a heavy pistol. What you experienced with the edge is due to the Edge’s sheer weight of the slide. That’s not an uncommon observation with the edge, especially in regards to 9mm. That’s why so many have the slide lightened. Weight for weight’s sake doesn’t make the pistol shoot flatter or have less felt recoil. You want non reciprocating mass. That’s why the X5 legion and S2 are both excellent choices for 9mm. So much of their mass is in the frame and grip. I shot both of these extensively. Ultimately I didn’t find that much of a performance edge in one over the other when shooting the pistols in stock configuration. I eventually did go with the S2 platform. The ergos of the S2 really won me over, it was more comfortable in my hand. Comparing the two side by side the S2 just seemed more substantial, more quality. The x5 legion is a great pistol, I think when it’s all said and done it’s the cheaper route. That’s not a dig against the x5. I ended up sending my S2 off to CGW to have a full makeover, I’m very happy with it. I’ve since gotten another CGW S2. I don’t think you can really go wrong with either. Just my experience. In my S2 i shooting 147 grn blue bullets of 3.2 grn sport pistol to make power factor with a little room for error.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[laughinginlast]

6 hours ago, B_RAD said:

Man,..... it’s gonna be all personal preference. 
 

Everyone is different. Shoot them both (if you haven’t already) and pick the one you like the best. 

 

Now,.......here’s the part where I tell you to stick with what you’ve already got.  The gun isn’t holding you back. seriously I wouldn’t choose a gun based on which is softer/flatter. Pick the one that is the easiest for you to shoot at speed and accurate!  The speed part doesn’t mean flat and has zero to do with soft and the accuracy is probably the more important thing to focus on in my opinion. 

 

 

Good luck. 

Thank you so much for your input. I am a firm believer in it’s “the indian not the arrow” and with that admittedly have much to improve on. However, in this particular instance, the 10rd capacity of my single stack 9mm is kind of holding me back/handicapping me. I genuinely enjoy that gun and running it feels very natural, I’m just trying to figure out between the X5 Legion and Shadow2 which had a similar recoil impulse to said 1911, that way I can mimic that gun but double the capacity for 2/3 Gun. 

 

also thanks to others for posting advice. @Jonesjohnm for your input! Gorgeous guns btw!!

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by laughinginlast

[B_RAD]

1 hour ago, laughinginlast said:

Thank you so much for your input. I am a firm believer in it’s “the indian not the arrow” and with that admittedly have much to improve on. However, in this particular instance, the 10rd capacity of my single stack 9mm is kind of holding me back/handicapping me. I genuinely enjoy that gun and running it feels very natural, I’m just trying to figure out between the X5 Legion and Shadow2 which had a similar recoil impulse to said 1911, that way I can mimic that gun but double the capacity for 2/3 Gun. 

 

also thanks to others for posting advice. @Jonesjohnm for your input! Gorgeous guns btw!!

 

I thought you said you were shooting a G34?  Sorry if I miss understood. 
 

 

Anyways, I will answer you question or give you my opinion. I’ve had PM9, 320 and S2. To me, the 320 legion felt softer. Not sure it was similar to the PM9. It felt flatter/softer. 
 

 

 

[bimmer1980]

Both shoot soft.

I would pick the one on which i get a better freestyle grip. 

 

- enough space for the support hand? <- very important.(you can make the grip a lot wider on the CZ, the stock grips are very slim) 

- Does the big beavertail of the sig fit my hand, or does it hurt my thumb? <- (there are guys that dremel it.) 

- Do i get full contact to the backside of the grip with the S2´s deep beavertail cutout?

 

Triggers can be made. CZ more clear and light, SIG more light and rolling. Reset can be made shorter on both, more short on the CZ.   

[bigfish]

Some striker fired guns can have some pretty decent triggers,  but have don’t think any of them will ever be as good as a CZ with a gunsmith fitted disco, or a CZ SOA. That being said, outside of maybe week hand only, I think triggers are over rated.  The other advantage a CZ might have is you can run a lighter recoil spring since you don’t have a striker spring pulling against it when in battery.

[gnappi]

Are triggers over rated? When I'm spanking mine, for the most part yes  

 

Recoil is another matter altogether,  and since the PO "discovered" steel hopefully he will find a sweet spot between capacity and comfort. Bimmer said the rest!

 

 

[shred]

To be a bit of a contrarian, if you really, really like the ergos of the 9mm 1911, look into the large frame Tanfos as well.  Takes more work to be as nice as a Shadow 2, but they are just a smidge longer in the grip, which is more 1911-like.

 

Downside is if you're a trigger slapper on the 1911, it's gonna take some work to get used to a DA/SA trigger.

[Gary1911A1]

I have the Sig Legion and the original Shadow and for me the shadow recoils less. Maybe it's the Shadow's grip as it feels better to me, but if I shoot Production again it will be with my Shadow.

[dogtired]

I have both and with 130 pf loads they are both pussycats.

[Lior]

The XFive Legion comes with one grip size, and if it fits you, that's great. There are other P320 grips but without the weight injected into them.
With the S2 you have some degrees of freedom for different hand sizes and weight preferences through the grips.
I've shot both with optics (X5 with GrayGuns trigger, S2 with lightened spring set) and my personal preference is the Shadow 2, but your mileage may vary. Both guns are excellent and I would be happy and burning up stages with either.

 

[belus]

If this is for some kind of multi-gun game where you might want to consider the sport's rules on abandonment.

In some clubs it's super simple to abandon a striker fired pistol, whereas you would need to remember to put the S2 on safe or risk a DQ.

Personally, I'd shoot the G34 and maybe experiment with a frame weight first? In my experience, grip volume and stickiness contributes more to soft shooting than weight. A 42.8oz 1911 in 9mm with extra thin grips feels violent and slippery because I can't get a good purchase on it. A Glock with good fresh grip tape is softer because the recoil force is spread out over my whole palm and not concentrated in the web of my hand.

[limitedgun]

Softer, flatter, powder, spring bullet weight........ none of it matters. Which one returns to target quicker? Which one can you watch the sight lift from poi and time with firing your second shot? Which one can you do 90 and 180 degree transitions with faster? No one has ever won a major because their gun shot flatter or softer. Splits are the absolute lowest denominator in the equation yet the one we all like to talk about the most.