I know they are rare but a question on a L2

[toothandnail]

Level 2 match, jungle run, fault lines.

I know these kind of stages are rare, and I think I know the answer, but here's the question. 

Are fault lines necessary?  There is no absolute shooting area, there is a well defined path, if you want to run through the brush, there sure isn't an advantage, and there would be some obvious barriers/obstacles if you did.

There is a defined start line and stop point, but other than the obvious path, no defined shooting area.

Just tossing this out there.

[open17]

If you have steel targets a fault line/barrier to comply with 2.1.3 would be appropriate.   Other than that

there really isn't much need of fault lines in a jungle run.

 

[Sarge]

There would be excessive trip hazards, tree limbs, etc. RO Might lose you. I would put caution tape up and declare areas off the trail as off limits.

[ChuckS]

Just 2 comments:

 

1) Review rule 2.1.2

2) "Obvious" sometimes isn't .

 

[ima45dv8]

3) When setting up a stage, NEVER utter the words, "Oh, nobody would do THAT!"

  -  They WILL.

[toothandnail]

1 hour ago, ChuckS said:

Just 2 comments:

 

1) Review rule 2.1.2

2) "Obvious" sometimes isn't .

 

Lol, that is for sure

59 minutes ago, ima45dv8 said:

3) When setting up a stage, NEVER utter the words, "Oh, nobody would do THAT!"

  -  They WILL.

I've seen it,  

Had a jeep stage once, shot over the hood, through the windows ,3 positions.

A top 10 shooter decided to climb on top and shoot the 4-6 targets from the roof, instead of talking 3 steps.  It was at least 10z15 seconds slower. But then everyone thought that was the best way. 

[MikeBurgess]

I would probably use stakes and some sort of raised banner or rope to make a defined shooting area well outside of where a shooter could gain an advantage by going, there would be no fault lines as such, more they would be low "walls" that could be shot over and the shooter would just have to be on the correct side. 

 

The big thing to keep in mind would be to proof the stage several times with several people looking at everything, with wide open shooting areas the biggest issue can be shoot throughs from places you assumed nobody would ever go. (like I can run to the far side of this target and shoot back towards that other target even if there is absolutely no reason to go there) 

 

my mantra is, give shooters choices and they will take them. this includes bad choices

[Schutzenmeister]

One would have to see the actual stage, but I would be potentially concerned about unsafe shooting angles and violations of 2.1.4.

[toothandnail]

1 hour ago, Schutzenmeister said:

One would have to see the actual stage, but I would be potentially concerned about unsafe shooting angles and violations of 2.1.4.

Not hard at all, we do 2 stages every month in 3 gun. A few more restrictions with uspsa, but not real difficult. 

[toothandnail]

double post an hour apart ? ?

Edited May 7, 2020 by toothandnail

[waktasz]

On 5/6/2020 at 12:37 PM, toothandnail said:

Lol, that is for sure

I've seen it,  

Had a jeep stage once, shot over the hood, through the windows ,3 positions.

A top 10 shooter decided to climb on top and shoot the 4-6 targets from the roof, instead of talking 3 steps.  It was at least 10z15 seconds slower. But then everyone thought that was the best way. 

 

The pro move here is to do it during the walkthrough when you are deep in the shooting order, then do it the right way on your actual run.

[Sandbagger123]

St George used to have a gully run in one of the bays.  

[ChuckS]

2 hours ago, Sandbagger123 said:

St George used to have a gully run in one of the bays.  

2012 Area 1 Cody McKenna 1:33. ( seem to recall there was match where you entered the run through Godzilla's Mouth...)

 

 

[ChuckS]

Found it. McClain at the 2013 Area 1 (3:09) :

 

 

[99mpower]

I would definitely have fault lines

[toothandnail]

Both Jungle runs worked out very well,  had fault lines at the very end to keep anyone from getting too close to the final steel, and "off limits" lines outside the path, they really weren't needed, as target placement pretty much dictated where you went.

[ChuckS]

2 minutes ago, toothandnail said:

Both Jungle runs worked out very well,  had fault lines at the very end to keep anyone from getting too close to the final steel, and "off limits" lines outside the path, they really weren't needed, as target placement pretty much dictated where you went.

Do you have any video?

[toothandnail]

1 minute ago, ChuckS said:

Do you have any video?

I didn't take any, let me do some checking, I know several that were posted on FB

[toothandnail]

Here are a few I found of various stages
 

 

 

[ChuckS]

Thanks! Boy, the 3rd one would use up RO's pretty quickly! Nice stages!

 

[usmc1974]

On 5/6/2020 at 11:33 AM, ima45dv8 said:

3) When setting up a stage, NEVER utter the words, "Oh, nobody would do THAT!"

  -  They WILL.

With the experience of setting up Many stages in more than one Club. I would have to stay truer words were never spoken. Lol 

[Schutzenmeister]

10 hours ago, toothandnail said:

Both Jungle runs worked out very well,  had fault lines at the very end to keep anyone from getting too close to the final steel, and "off limits" lines outside the path, they really weren't needed, as target placement pretty much dictated where you went.

 

Question ... and this is a subtle point:

 

How did you establish off-limits lines without using fault lines?  (2.2.1.5)

[PatJones]

 
Question ... and this is a subtle point:
 
How did you establish off-limits lines without using fault lines?  (2.2.1.5)

2.2.1.5 reads: "The off-limits area must be clearly delineated with rope, caution tape or other materials and must be at least 2 feet high and at least 2 feet from any Fault Line or Shooting Box."

It doesn't say 2 feet from a shooting area, it specifies fault lines or shooting boxes.

A shooting area doesn't need fault lines.

2.2.1.2 reads "A 'shooting area' is defined as a surface inside shooting boxes, fault lines, walls, or any other barrier."

--
Pat Jones
Firestone CO
USPSA #A79592

[Schutzenmeister]

OK ... I know this is splitting hairs, but this is a discussion.

 

Absent "boxes, fault lines, walls, or any other barrier" how did you specify the bounds of your shooting area such as to establish your "off-limits" area ... presumably while maintaining a minimum 2 foot separation?

[toothandnail]

The Boundaries were just a "suggestion"  there was no benefit to be gained by going off the path, there were fault lines at the end for distance to steel .