WAC or WSF for PCC?

[drysideshooter]

I'm planning on buying a JP GMR-15 with the 14.5" barrel with pinned/welded comp.  

 

Are many folks loading Winchester Autocomp for PCC?  I have quite a bit of that on hand from loading for my open pistols. I also have quite a bit of WSF.  Both are pretty gassy powders that have worked well for me on comped pistols.  

 

I plan to start with MG 124 JHP's.  Any thoughts or experience would be appreciated.  

[cecil]

I think WSF is a better choice for PCC ..  WAC is too  slow burning..

[egd5]

I use 124 RN FMJ from RMR. I load them with 4.2 gr of WSF at 1.115 to 1.120 oal. That gives me about 137 PF out of the same gun and barrel. If I do me part there's very little dot bounce.

[Darqusoull13]

I strongly recommend staying in the Sport Pistol / N320 / Titegroup / Bullseye range of powder burns. Slow powders felt awful and left a ton of powder flake everywhere when we tested them early on. 

[AHI]

1 hour ago, Darqusoull13 said:

I strongly recommend staying in the Sport Pistol / N320 / Titegroup / Bullseye range of powder burns. Slow powders felt awful and left a ton of powder flake everywhere when we tested them early on. 

this

[zzt]

Everything about PCC is a balancing act.  For the least dot bounce you want to be in the 135-145PF range and short stroked. 124 is a good weight to start.  You have a comp, and they do help a little.  So don't be afraid of slower powders, as long as you are above the minimum load and below max.  Try both of you powders and see which you prefer.

 

Right now I'm loading between 5.4 and 5.6gr Silhouette under a 124gr.  Silhouette is very close to the same speed as WAC.  Drop 0.1gr and you will be spot on.

 

A word on comps:  don't get hung up on trying to get them to work.  You can get zero dot bounce without one.  For example, I swapped my Leadstar SS barrel for a Wiland USA LLW barrel.  It has a 5.5" rifled section with a shroud to 16.1"  Using a carbine buffer spring, a standard Blitzkrieg buffer and the Blitzkrieg 3/4" short stroke slug, I can put 147gr 144PF rounds on top of each other as fast as I can fire at 50 yards.

[drysideshooter]

Thanks for the info everyone, it's really appreciated. I will try some different powders, I have some 320.  As for comps, I'm extremely familiar with them as I have them on several firearms.  

[pig4bill]

On 5/2/2020 at 3:04 PM, zzt said:

Everything about PCC is a balancing act.  For the least dot bounce you want to be in the 135-145PF range and short stroked. 124 is a good weight to start.  You have a comp, and they do help a little.  So don't be afraid of slower powders, as long as you are above the minimum load and below max.  Try both of you powders and see which you prefer.

 

Right now I'm loading between 5.4 and 5.6gr Silhouette under a 124gr.  Silhouette is very close to the same speed as WAC.  Drop 0.1gr and you will be spot on.

 

Seems like a lot of powder. No problem fitting it all in a 9mm case?

[AHI]

3 hours ago, pig4bill said:

 

Seems like a lot of powder. No problem fitting it all in a 9mm case?

pff not Evan a starting load for 9 MAJOR it'll fit .

[Bdh821]

This is a lot of powder in a 9mm. 10.5gr of Major pistol for 9major

[mgkrs]

Any reason you're using JHP over RN? A lot of PCCs have issues with them so I'm not sure what the benefit is. 

[mgkrs]

On 5/2/2020 at 4:04 PM, zzt said:

 

A word on comps:  don't get hung up on trying to get them to work.  You can get zero dot bounce without one.  For example, I swapped my Leadstar SS barrel for a Wiland USA LLW barrel.  It has a 5.5" rifled section with a shroud to 16.1"  Using a carbine buffer spring, a standard Blitzkrieg buffer and the Blitzkrieg 3/4" short stroke slug, I can put 147gr 144PF rounds on top of each other as fast as I can fire at 50 yards.

 

Did you keep the weight in the BCG? Did you try a 308 vs 223 carbine buffer spring?

[1911luvr]

This is a lot of powder in a 9mm. 10.5gr of Major pistol for 9major [emoji1]

I’m at 8.9gr HS-6 with a 115gr RMR JHP for 173pf for 9major. 10.5gr of any powder seems like a huge amount. What is your PF?


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[zzt]

5 hours ago, mgkrs said:

 

Did you keep the weight in the BCG? Did you try a 308 vs 223 carbine buffer spring?

 

I tried it with and without the weight using the standard 5.56 carbine spring that came with the gun.  I also tried short stroking using the Blitzkrieg 3/4" spacer and the MBX short stroke kit.  I also tried all of that with a TUBB flatwire carbine spring.  I listed the best comb earlier, but forgot to state the weight was in the BCG.  I'm going to try that combo again but with 1/2" of short stroke instead of 3/4".

 

Taking the 3 oz. weight out of the BCG helped a lot with mouse fart loads in the 95 to 110 PF range.  It was too violent with normal PF loads.

 

I plan to experiment with a 308 spring and the weight out, just to see if it feels any different.

[Bdh821]

6 hours ago, 1911luvr said:

I’m at 8.9gr HS-6 with a 115gr RMR JHP for 173pf for 9major. 10.5gr of any powder seems like a huge amount. What is your PF?


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I was running 8.8gr of Hs6 back in the day which got me around 173pf. I think the 10.5gr of MP got around 175. I don’t shoot open anymore nor do I own open guns anymore. 

[pig4bill]

19 hours ago, Bdh821 said:

This is a lot of powder in a 9mm. 10.5gr of Major pistol for 9major

 

The spilled powder on the shellplate is a good way to make your point. I can barely get a little over 5 grains of 231 in my cases. They're sized more than yours but I can't imagine that makes a lot of difference.

[pig4bill]

18 hours ago, mgkrs said:

Any reason you're using JHP over RN? A lot of PCCs have issues with them so I'm not sure what the benefit is. 

 

Probably can't seat rn deep enough in the case for the case to held them. Look how shallow those bullets are.

[AHI]

50 minutes ago, pig4bill said:

 

Probably can't seat rn deep enough in the case for the case to held them. Look how shallow those bullets are.

you do know that is a picture of loading 9 MAJOR not for PCC. if you go back a ways you will see how the conservation

has drifted to case capacity  and not the subject at hand.

Edited May 5, 2020 by AHI

[Bwillis]

4.6 gr wsf with a 115gr jhp and spp is 138-140 out of my 14.5 shooting innovation barrel. Great feel, use it for uspsa and 3g.  

[Bdh821]

3 hours ago, AHI said:

you do know that is a picture of loading 9 MAJOR not for PCC. if you go back a ways you will see how the conservation

has drifted to case capacity  and not the subject at hand.

Yeah, that’s my fault. My only point was it’s  simple to get 5 grains of powder in a 9mm case.  I will say I don’t know what “they’re sized more than yours” means 

 

If you get powder all over the place from minor pf loads, slow down.  I have all the roller bearings on my 650 too to make it smoother. Also the delron ball and I clipped a coil off the spring.  That helped a great deal. 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Bdh821

[mgkrs]

Right, but question still stands from original post - why use JHPs over RN for PCC? Don't think it gets hot enough to burn through the base and RN is much more reliable for PCC.

[Bwillis]

6 hours ago, mgkrs said:

Right, but question still stands from original post - why use JHPs over RN for PCC? Don't think it gets hot enough to burn through the base and RN is much more reliable for PCC.

I use jhp because they are cheaper than tmj and cmj. I had bad experience with fmj clogging my apa comp after 500 rounds. After 2k rounds of fmj, I could feel a difference in recoil from my mbx comp starting to have lead build up in the ports.

 

I never had feeding issues with my shooting innovations barrel or mbx barrel in 40k jhp rounds last year.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Bwillis

[mgkrs]

1 hour ago, Bwillis said:

I use jhp because they are cheaper than tmj and cmj. I had bad experience with fmj clogging my apa comp after 500 rounds. After 2k rounds of fmj, I could feel a difference in recoil from my mbx comp starting to have lead build up in the ports.

 

I never had a feeding issues with a shooting innovations barrel or mbx barrel in 40k jhp rounds last year.

What about plated or coated?

[Bwillis]

30 minutes ago, mgkrs said:

What about plated or coated?

Plated would be fine

I’ve never loaded coated 
 

I stay away from exposed base bullets when using a comped gun. 

[zzt]

2 hours ago, mgkrs said:

What about plated or coated?

 

If you are shooting through a comp and don't want to constantly be cleaning lead out of it, only use medium or heavy plate, CMJ or JHP.  Poly coated WILL flame cut and deposit lead in the comp.  Every poly coated bullet I have tried does this.  I'm soon to try a brand that guarantees there will be no comp leading.  We'll see.