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vince

RED (LNL AP) vs BLUE (XL750)

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This video is just one persons opinion and comparison. Lets keep the butt hurt on a low scale here. The purpose for posting the video was to let people see the operation`s of both presses.

Personally, i`m glad that people make these videos. It gives us all a heads up on the operations. And its nice to see the guy having a side by side comparison.

Videos like this helps new reloaders that are interested in getting into our hobby, with understanding how progressive presses work.

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I can save everyone at least 47 3/4 minutes.............buy a Dillon.

 

P.S. I love how his entire setup shakes, it looks like he's loading during an earthquake.

 

 

Edited by 4n2t0

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You weren’t joking. Wow. I’ve gone to great lengths to increase my bench’s rigidity over the years. The current one is welded 1” square tubing and it’s bolted into the studs in the wall.

 

I can’t imagine loading on a machine that sloppy.

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I can save everyone at least 47 3/4 minutes.............buy a Dillon.
 
P.S. I love how his entire setup shakes, it looks like he's loading during an earthquake.
 
 

I guess I heard it differently. He stated several times there is really no significant functional difference between the two. I believe the choice comes down changeover time and cost and the number of calibers you need to load.

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1 minute ago, TeedOff said:


I guess I heard it differently. He stated several times there is really no significant functional difference between the two. I believe the choice comes down changeover time and cost and the number of calibers you need to load.

I didn't watch the video. Ive owned both. Buy a Dillon. The lnl isn't terrible but the Dillon is way better. The case feed/shuttle aspect of the lnl is terrible. 

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I didn't watch the video. Ive owned both. Buy a Dillon. The lnl isn't terrible but the Dillon is way better. The case feed/shuttle aspect of the lnl is terrible. 

On that point, the guy had one of these 3D printed case feeder things and was loading tubes by hand so high volume productivity really wasn’t a factor in his review.

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I guess I heard it differently. He stated several times there is really no significant functional difference between the two. I believe the choice comes down changeover time and cost and the number of calibers you need to load.
I own both Red and Blue and have used both extensively.

Both will crank out good ammo and both are solid designs. Slight nod to the Hornady for caliber changes especially if you don't own a complete separate assembly for the Dillon. The Hornady is also larger with regard to reaching into the press to right a tipped case or whatever. Also a bigger tool head area so a little more room for different powder measures or other stuff that might be tight on the Dillon.

The big advantage to Dillon is that the case feeder is meant to be part of the design. In fact Dillon should just make the case feeder part of the package.

Hornady (without case feed) is not as fast but it can actually be used effectively without the feeder.

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Posted (edited)

Haven't used a Dillon but they look so tight and compact that my fat hands would get frustrated trying to setup or correct an issue around the shell plate. I enjoy my LnL with Hornady case feeder and MBF.  Both need tweaks and have a learning curve. If you need more stations, then Dillon or  mark 7 options offer than but for the progressive 5 station presses, I don't see much difference between the 750 and LnL.

 

I am however, undecided if I want to go with a Dillon to have the option to fully automate later or get another LnL since it is the platform I know.  I think the automation is the driving factor in a lot of the blue vs red debate

Edited by broadside72

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I think the automation is the driving factor in a lot of the blue vs red debate

 

I think that's right.

 

As I said in one of the other threads; I like the LNL and think it is a capable machine but it is a little long in the tooth. It is based on the Pro-Jector (and Pro-7 I believe that even older press was called) and could use an update.

 

The last update I can remember was the new subplate with the case feed arm and the shell ejector bump. The primer linkage was changed to a breakaway system sometime in that timeframe. All of these are probably 8-10 years old now.

 

What I'd love Hornady to do is come out with a 6-station press so guys running feeders can still have a powder check die or taper crimp die, etc. And work with AmmoBot or come out with their own motor drive while they're at it.

 

 

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I have the Hornady LNL and had a couple of Dillon SDBs and a Lee Turret before that.  I like the Hornady well enough and have done all the tweeks and mods to get it to where I can run 600 rounds per hour.  I wouldn't mind trying out a Dillon 650/750 but don't really want to spend the money to find out that it is just a different set of tweeks and mods to get it running properly.  

 

My next step in reloading would likely be to make the just to a full automated setup.  Not sure that my shooting level will ever be at the level to make the move to automated feasible.  I would have to have it in 9mm as that is my largest consumption caliber but it is also the one that is closest to economically not feasible to have to reload. 

 

I load a total of 8 pistol calibers and a few rifle calibers.  When I was looking between the Hornady and 650 about 5 years ago the cost of caliber change is what made me go with the Hornady. 

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I have the Hornady LNL and had a couple of Dillon SDBs and a Lee Turret before that.  I like the Hornady well enough and have done all the tweeks and mods to get it to where I can run 600 rounds per hour.  I wouldn't mind trying out a Dillon 650/750 but don't really want to spend the money to find out that it is just a different set of tweeks and mods to get it running properly.  
 
My next step in reloading would likely be to make the just to a full automated setup.  Not sure that my shooting level will ever be at the level to make the move to automated feasible.  I would have to have it in 9mm as that is my largest consumption caliber but it is also the one that is closest to economically not feasible to have to reload. 
 
I load a total of 8 pistol calibers and a few rifle calibers.  When I was looking between the Hornady and 650 about 5 years ago the cost of caliber change is what made me go with the Hornady. 
Again, I think the only advantage Blue has over Red is the case feeder. But the Hornady can be used quite well w/o the feeder. The 650 not so much.

Otherwise both machines drop out a loaded round with each pull of the handle. Both the machines both are 5 station so no benefit there either. Both primer systems hold 100 primers and both factory powder measures hold about a pound of powder....

The other benefit, perceived or real, is aftermarket support. All kinds of mods for Blue that aren't even a thing with Red.


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5 minutes ago, Tokarev said:

Again, I think the only advantage Blue has over Red is the case feeder. But the Hornady can be used quite well w/o the feeder. The 650 not so much.

Otherwise both machines drop out a loaded round with each pull of the handle. Both the machines both are 5 station so no benefit there either. Both primer systems hold 100 primers and both factory powder measures hold about a pound of powder....

The other benefit, perceived or real, is aftermarket support. All kinds of mods for Blue that aren't even a thing with Red.


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What is the problem with the case feeder?  I have one one my LNL and it is awesome.  At 600 rounds per hour I can't keep up with it.

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What is the problem with the case feeder?  I have one one my LNL and it is awesome.  At 600 rounds per hour I can't keep up with it.
Nothing. But it can take some fiddling. Once set it works fine.

The Dillon requires no fiddling. Just change the shell plate and the associated colored plastic bits and it works.

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I only load 38/357 with 12 seating dies the LNL works best for me.  One for 38 and one for 357.

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I only load 38/357 with 12 seating dies the LNL works best for me.  One for 38 and one for 357.
Finally someone who uses the twist out bushings.

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2 hours ago, Tokarev said:

Finally someone who uses the twist out bushings.

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I have 35 of them work great of me.

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I have 35 of them work great of me.
I see the benefits in certain situations. Yours, for example, is the perfect reason to be able to swap seating and expanding dies.

Personally I've found the bushings sometimes so tight they're hard to lock and unlock. Sometimes they are the opposite. I've had a powder measure unlock and come up with the case.

The key is probably to have spare o-rings and swap them out when bushings get a little loose. Even then I've seen some bushings are still relatively easy to turn.

Hornady makes a brass washer/shim that's supposed to fix loose bushings.

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18 minutes ago, Tokarev said:

. Sometimes they are the opposite. I've had a powder measure unlock and come up with the case.

The key is probably to have spare o-rings and swap them out when bushings get a little loose. Even then I've seen some bushings are still relatively easy to turn.

Hornady makes a brass washer/shim that's supposed to fix loose bushings.

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In this situation, I’ve simply called Hornady and they sent me a couple of shins. No questions asked. 

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In this situation, I’ve simply called Hornady and they sent me a couple of shins. No questions asked. 
I know H has shims. Personally I'd like to see something entirely different. A Dillon-ish tool head. Or maybe something like Lee's bushings with the spring-loaded detent.

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I’m not familiar with the Lee bushings, but isn’t the tool head at least in part what drives up the cost of calibers conversions for blue?

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isn’t the tool head at least in part what drives up the cost of calibers conversions for blue?


A new Dillon tool head is about $35. Aftermarket ones from Jofer and similar are a little cheaper. But a tool head isn't part of the standard change kit. The standard kit comes with a shell plate and the little brass case pins, case feed bits and a powder funnel.

Another plus to the Hornady; I like the spring that runs around the shell plate. No small pin to accidentally drop into the trash or have bounce across the floor and roll under the loading bench.

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Also have 7 powder measures 4 RCBS and 3 Hornady, so all I do is change the seating die and powder measure ready to load different bullet.  Plus the Hornady's have quick change out powder bar have 4 of them.  So moving around to different loads is also no problem.

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I bought a LNL 15 plus years ago after much research but the clincher was I found a guy that had a LNL he used once and was selling it for half price. I load half rifle and half pistol and I had all the dies I needed so the LNL was a better fit for me.

 

A co-worker, a die hard BLUE PRESS fanatic (I think he wears only blue underwear to show loyalty) lives hours from our office needed to reload for a range session. I offered my RED press and he came over just to harass me and to load some ammo. I set the press up for him and he complained about the color of the press for two hours as the press ran flawlessly for him. I wanted to take a picture of him working the red press and that corkscrewed him into the ceiling over the thought of evidence he used a RED press. At the end of two hours he sat in front of that RED press and admitted (But said he would deny what he was about to say) That a LNL had some functions he liked better........ FORD, CHEVY, HONDA, etc - they get you where you're going if you can keep them running - IMHO........

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On 4/29/2020 at 9:10 PM, vince said:

This video is just one persons opinion and comparison. Lets keep the butt hurt on a low scale here. The purpose for posting the video was to let people see the operation`s of both presses.

Personally, i`m glad that people make these videos. It gives us all a heads up on the operations. And its nice to see the guy having a side by side comparison.

Videos like this helps new reloaders that are interested in getting into our hobby, with understanding how progressive presses work.

 

 

 

I really like what you did with the powder measure, can you give me lead on where to get those springs? Have you noticed and discerning difference by not using the failsafe rod?

 

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I think the RED VS BLUE is just funny. They are slightly different systems with the same end product. I also like the side by side comparison videos. 

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