Switching from XL650 to RL1100

[HOGRIDER]

Having started on an XL650 many years ago, and still using an XL650 through last year, I ordered an RL1100 in January and it should arrive in a week to 10 days.  Of course I'm very excited to move up to the S1050/RL1100 platform!  

 

Have dl'd the RL Manual, and am trying to lay out a game-plan for learning the platform and getting started on 9mm; plus I've searched and read a ton of threads here on the Forum.

 

Several years ago I got introduced to the huge benefits of using the MBF powder die in my XL 650 powder measure.  Extremely beneficial in bullet stability;  FMJ and Coated alike.  So after selling my XL650, I kept the extra UniqueTek micrometer modified powder measure along with my MBF powder dies.  (9mm and .45acp)

 

So now, I'm seeing the 1050/1100 platform performs "Primer Pocket Swaging AND Case Neck Expanding" at station #3, then "Powder Dispensing and CASE BELLING" at Station #5 using an "Universal Pistol Powder Activator" (powder Funnel).  Page 35 of the Dillon Manual gives a side by side comparison of the "standard" Dillon Pistol Powder Funnel next to the RL1100 Pistol Powder Activator.

 

Of course, I understand the value of the primer pocket swager; but I'm not sure of the benefits of the "case neck expander".......and will this step prevent me from using a MBF powder funnel under the powder measure in place of the 1100's universal powder activator?

 

While studying the standard Dillon powder funnel, which appears to be the same (for pistol) as what I've used with the XL650, and comparing it to the 1100 funnel, I'm wondering if the standard (XL650) funnel was expanding the neck AND flaring/belling the mouth in one station; and now the RL1100 is doing it at two, different stations?  (#3 and #5)

 

If I sound confused, then forgive my ignorance........but I sure would like to hear from some seasoned S1050 users as to the benefits of these two functions being done at two different stations!!  And can I indeed use the MBF powder funnel at Station #5 as I had always done with the XL650?  (Powder drop station).

 

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!

[al503]

I'm not sure there is a benefit to having it expanded and flared in two different stations.  

When set correctly, the tip of the expander keeps the case down in the shell plate while the swager pushes up.  It would definitely help with the wear and tear on the shell plate from the swager pushing the case upwards and it might also help the case rims from being dented/deformed as well.  

[SeattleDude]

I do not use MBF 9mm funnel.

 

Dillon 9mm Swage Back up does great job for setting the neck tension after case is resized with Lee U Die.

Universal Dillon Cone shaped powder funnel does great job adding just a tiny bit of bell for bullet feeder to drop a bullet to.

[sauza45]

The MBF funnel with make the brass stick very bad. I took mine out and just use the Dillon setup at it works great.

[ddc]

Hogrider,

 

I also am moving to an 1100 from a 650 where I had the MBF funnel installed in the powder measure.

I polish my MBF funnels and although stickiness is an occasional problem it hasn't been a show stopper.

For what its worth I only load 9mm.

 

For me the expander function of the swage die does not provide enough of a flare/expansion/whatever you want to call it/? to allow reliable dropping of a bullet from a bullet feeder.

I had to install my MBF funnel into the 1100 powder measure to get bullet feeder functionality equivalent to what I had on the 650.

 

The swage/expander die does do enough expanding such that I can place a bullet by hand although it is a bit tippy.

For me it was not quite enough to use with the bullet feeder.

 

Good luck, you are going to love the press. I really like my 650 but I really, really like my 1100.

[HOGRIDER]

1 hour ago, ddc said:

Hogrider,

 

I also am moving to an 1100 from a 650 where I had the MBF funnel installed in the powder measure.

I polish my MBF funnels and although stickiness is an occasional problem it hasn't been a show stopper.

For what its worth I only load 9mm.

 

For me the expander function of the swage die does not provide enough of a flare/expansion/whatever you want to call it/? to allow reliable dropping of a bullet from a bullet feeder.

I had to install my MBF funnel into the 1100 powder measure to get bullet feeder functionality equivalent to what I had on the 650.

 

The swage/expander die does do enough expanding such that I can place a bullet by hand although it is a bit tippy.

For me it was not quite enough to use with the bullet feeder.

 

Good luck, you are going to love the press. I really like my 650 but I really, really like my 1100.

ddc:

GREAT to hear from someone that has also enjoyed the results of the MBF powder funnel loading 9mm!  I'm sure my unfamiliarity with the swage/expander die is causing a lot of my confusion; but having only reloaded 38S, .40, .45acp, and 9mm I'm still not understanding the benefit of using the expander at #3 then "belling" the mouth at #5!

 

Several years ago, when I first received the MBF funnel and had put it to use, I posted here at the Forum about how the MBF had eliminated the issue of shaving coated lead bullets and how stable the bullet was coming around to the seating die.  On the XL650.  Here in "red" is the type of flare/expansion I'm after whether it's coated lead, fmj, or jhp bullets:

 

This type of expansion created a very stable place for the bullet prior to seating; and I never had an issue with slanted/crooked seating.

 

At this point, I know that kind of expansion/flare is not possible with using the "universal powder activator" on the RL1100:

 

 

Again, THANK YOU for jumping in and giving me the confidence to know I can still use the MBF funnel with the 1100!

 

[fastglass1985]

+1 on using the MBF powder funnel on 9mm on the 1100.2000 rounds loaded with 0 problems.

[HOGRIDER]

19 minutes ago, fastglass1985 said:

+1 on using the MBF powder funnel on 9mm on the 1100.2000 rounds loaded with 0 problems.

fast:  That's awesome!  

Are you still using the Station #3 neck expander as installed from the factory?

Thanks!

 

[Service Desk]

18 hours ago, SeattleDude said:

I do not use MBF 9mm funnel.

 

Dillon 9mm Swage Back up does great job for setting the neck tension after case is resized with Lee U Die.

Universal Dillon Cone shaped powder funnel does great job adding just a tiny bit of bell for bullet feeder to drop a bullet to.

Same here... MBF expander is not required in a 1050/1100...but is essential in a 650/750.

[fastglass1985]

Yes I still use it and it will work fine as is,but I still use the MBF funnel as it is easier to adjust or at least I’m accustomed to it.


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[HOGRIDER]

I see some users are doing just fine using the 1050/1100 existing expansion die and universal powder die.  And from my current inexperience, I'm wondering if different types of bullets may change the requirements?  IOW, fmj/jhp vs cast lead which are usually a bit larger diameter.........

 

I decided to look on the MBF website for specific install instructions related to the MBF powder funnel, and found this in the Setup Manual:

Installing and Adjusting the Powder Funnel

Your Mr.Bulletfeeder® is supplied with a newly designed and improved powder funnel. The powder funnel is a very important
component of a bullet feeder of any kind, as it prepares the brass correctly so that the bullet can be seated in the case, and not
tip over as you index the shell plate. To achieve this, we have redesigned the powder funnel to allow for just the right amount
of expansion, without over flaring or stressing your brass.

 

On the website under the Setup/FAQ, it states this:

Q: Is it necessary to use the powder funnel/expander that came with the system?

A: We recommend installing the new powder funnel/expander (for handgun calibers) on your press. It has been machined with a modified profile that improves bullet tamping performance while requiring a minimum of case flaring. A properly tamped bullet will not fall from the case mouth when the press is indexed. As you become accustomed to reloading with the new bulletfeeder, your reloading rate will naturally increase. The higher reloading rate will cause poorly tamped bullets to fall off of the cases during indexing. That being said, if your existing press setup prepares the cases well enough to hold the bullets in place while indexing, use of the new style funnel/expander is optional.

 

So, it looks as though there's always the option that if your current setup is working, then no need to switch.  Based on my 6+ years of using the MBF funnel in an XL650, I can only say "for now" that I definitely look forward to that same bullet stability the MBF provided while using the RL1100!

 

I appreciate the info that ddc shared above:

For me the expander function of the swage die does not provide enough of a flare/expansion/whatever you want to call it/? to allow reliable dropping of a bullet from a bullet feeder.

I had to install my MBF funnel into the 1100 powder measure to get bullet feeder functionality equivalent to what I had on the 650.

 

The swage/expander die does do enough expanding such that I can place a bullet by hand although it is a bit tippy.

For me it was not quite enough to use with the bullet feeder.

 

And think I'll be able to test a JHP or Coated Lead bullet's stability after it comes out of the swage/expander die and directly compare it to a case after it's went through the MBF funnel.

 

Thanks to everyone that's replied!  Truly appreciated!

 

HR

 

[fastglass1985]

You are going to love that 1100.I set up an endoscope on mine to make it easier to see the powder and the bullet.Check into that when you get the opportunity.

[fastglass1985]

My little setup


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[HOGRIDER]

5 hours ago, fastglass1985 said:

My little setup


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Fast:

Great looking setup.  And yes, I have investigated the Endoscope option.  Right now I already have a 7" color monitor and an extra back-up camera; so once i have it set up I'm going to experiment with that and see how it works. I also have a nice Endoscope setup save on Amazon.

 

Thanks for sharing your setup!

 

[fastglass1985]

Thanks,sorry yours took so long to get there but you are going to like the 1100.Ride hard or stay on the porch.


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[HOGRIDER]

Everyone:

 

I just received the email!

Quote

SHIPPING DEPARTMENT of DILLON PRECISION PRODUCTS INC sent BEN ####### 1 FedEx Home Delivery package(s).  The delivery date may be updated  when FedEx receives the package.This shipment is scheduled to be sent  on 04/29/2020.

 

Their estimated delivery date is 05/05/2020 which will be 14 weeks and one day since I ordered (9mm) direct from Dillon Precision!

 

What an ordeal!

 

Thanks everyone for all your positive feedback!

 

HR

Edited April 30, 2020 by HOGRIDER
sp

[blindshooter]

You can shorten the backup rod and readjust, gaining more flare at the swage station. I load a lot of soft swaged LSWC and use both stations to expand and flare. This on a 1050, I assume that part of the 1100 is the same.

[ddc]

16 hours ago, blindshooter said:

You can shorten the backup rod and readjust, gaining more flare at the swage station. I load a lot of soft swaged LSWC and use both stations to expand and flare. This on a 1050, I assume that part of the 1100 is the same.

 

It would be nice if that die had the ability to adjust the expansion independent of affecting the swage operation.

 

I wonder if there are any aftermarket dies that would allow that.

[HOGRIDER]

1 hour ago, ddc said:

 

It would be nice if that die had the ability to adjust the expansion independent of affecting the swage operation.

 

I wonder if there are any aftermarket dies that would allow that.

I've been thinking the same thing as I plan on using the MBF powder funnel when the RL1100 arrives, and don't want issues with expansion in Station 3 and Station 5.........

 

Wonder if this would work?

http://fastandfriendlybrass.com/shop/item.aspx/ffb-swage-rod-backer-for-dillon-1050-large/62/

 

[ddc]

5 hours ago, HOGRIDER said:

I've been thinking the same thing as I plan on using the MBF powder funnel when the RL1100 arrives, and don't want issues with expansion in Station 3 and Station 5.........

 

Wonder if this would work?

http://fastandfriendlybrass.com/shop/item.aspx/ffb-swage-rod-backer-for-dillon-1050-large/62/

 

 

I believe you need the rifle swage die in order to use that.

I think they are a different design than the pistol but do not know for sure.

 

As far as the Dillon pistol swage die is concerned I have now heard of:

1. people filing/machining the swage portion so that the expansion portion can be adjusted down farther.

2. people filing/machining the expansion portion so that the swage portioin can be adjusted down farther.

 

Sounds like a die with independent adjustment might sell.

[HOGRIDER]

ddc:

I think you're right with regards to my link from F&FB.........however it does announce

Quote

 is designed specifically for use with 9mm and larger shell cases

......and now I see there's another one with a smaller backing rod:  http://fastandfriendlybrass.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=61.  

 

And it also states: 

Quote

but may work with other small primer cases such as 9mm.

...........

 

Appears that both of these items may stabilize a 9mm case, as that's my setup for now; but is doing so by also incorporating the Universal Die and Lock Ring that's used with the RL1100's Rifle Backup Expander.

 

And, F&FB also offers a similar item to the Dillon Pistol Backup Expander; however it uses the Dillon Universal Die and Lock Ring that's also used Dillon's Rifle Expander setup:  http://fastandfriendlybrass.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=85.  And they claim:

Quote

 

Will also dead lock the press when it comes across one of those pesky 9mm cases with the interior step.

Expands case mouth to ~0.3575"

Bullets tested below sit squarely, and have a "suction pop" sound when pulled out by hand.

 

I can see the advantage of having the expander step to catch one of those pesky stepped brass pieces for those using mixed range brass to reload...........

 

IMO, if an operator wants to eliminate the neck expander for pistol at station #3, then your option #2 seems viable.  Then, the expanding and flaring would take place at Station #5 just as with an XL650 doing the same at the powder station.

 

In all fairness to the 1100, I'll hopefully have the opportunity next week to do some precise measuring  using the stock Dillon setup and then with the MBF funnel at Station #5.  Hopefully the stock neck expansion at #3 won't alter the results after also using the MBF funnel.  If it does, then a re-machined pistol expander at #3 will be an easy accomplishment........

 

And yes, if you find that aftermarket adjustable die, be sure and share it with us!  

 

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by HOGRIDER
sp

[HOGRIDER]

On 4/27/2020 at 1:58 PM, ddc said:

Hogrider,

 

I also am moving to an 1100 from a 650 where I had the MBF funnel installed in the powder measure.

I polish my MBF funnels and although stickiness is an occasional problem it hasn't been a show stopper.

For what its worth I only load 9mm.

 

For me the expander function of the swage die does not provide enough of a flare/expansion/whatever you want to call it/? to allow reliable dropping of a bullet from a bullet feeder.

I had to install my MBF funnel into the 1100 powder measure to get bullet feeder functionality equivalent to what I had on the 650.

 

The swage/expander die does do enough expanding such that I can place a bullet by hand although it is a bit tippy.

For me it was not quite enough to use with the bullet feeder.

 

Good luck, you are going to love the press. I really like my 650 but I really, really like my 1100.

ddc:

Thought I'd share some info straight from DAA/MBF concerning the MBF powder funnel.  Tech highly recommended applying a light amount of case lube to the inside mouth of cases prior to reloading. His preferred was Hornady One Shot, and he applied light sprays while in the Case Feeder!  Said it would give sufficient coating to the outside of the cases while allowing a small amount inside the mouths while rotating in the case feeder.............

 

I decided to try the MA Swager Backup Die as the stock Dillon expander dimensions would never allow, IMO, sufficient expansion for holding the 147 Zero FMJs I like.  And wouldn't come close for supporting Hy-Tec Coated lead..........

 

[SpartanArmament]

Hello Folks looking for a solution as well! The 9mm MBF powder funnel is sticking horribly with every powder drop on my RL1100. It has removed the smoothness of the reloading process on this new rig. It was not this bad on my 650. I even tried polishing the MBF powder funnel.

I wet tumble and use Brass Juice Pistol Case Lube.


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[HOGRIDER]

18 minutes ago, SpartanArmament said:

Hello Folks looking for a solution as well! The 9mm MBF powder funnel is sticking horribly with every powder drop on my RL1100. It has removed the smoothness of the reloading process on this new rig. It was not this bad on my 650. I even tried polishing the MBF powder funnel.

I wet tumble and use Brass Juice Pistol Case Lube.


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I'm in the same situation right now...........haven't decided which direction to go with improving the MBF funnel.

 

One thing I did learn in my research is that since the RL1100 has a much larger shell plate vs the XL650, there is more room for "flex" which is going to amplify the "sticking" of the brass coming out of the funnel.

 

Hopefully there will eventually be user(s) that will share their success stories on how to machine/file/polish the MBF funnel to all but eliminate the sticking!