Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

Black Mountain Firearms 80% frame?


BlkSC
 Share

Recommended Posts

I've built many AR-15's and a couple Polymer 80 based Glocks and I've decided I want to attempt to build a 2011 (lol, yes, I know it's not even in the same level as building an AR or Glock). Does anybody have any experience with the Black Mountain 80% frames? Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

L-10 is who I've read so many good things about but I'd like to do a stainless frame and they don't make one while Black Mountain does.

 

But speaking of L-10, what's your opinion of the Tennalum frames? I know it has a higher strength to weight ratio to even 6Al-4V titanium but I'm curious about the long term durability when used in a frame. My understanding is that the Type III hard coat anodizing commonly used on AR upper and lower receivers is to prevent the aluminum from wearing...that is where my concern is based on using aluminum for a frame as I wouldn't have it anodized.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Honestly. b4 you jump into 2011, it would be smart to build a few 1911's first. watch all the Mosin Virus vids and get all the other goodies Matrix Precision and all the other tools..... I'm on # 11 of 1911's and #3 2011 I have the BM aluminum and the L10 all stainless with grip..... With jigs and all the smith tools it's easy to spend between $2.5k and upwards just for tools.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, MarkMelheim said:

Honestly. b4 you jump into 2011, it would be smart to build a few 1911's first. watch all the Mosin Virus vids and get all the other goodies Matrix Precision and all the other tools..... I'm on # 11 of 1911's and #3 2011 I have the BM aluminum and the L10 all stainless with grip..... With jigs and all the smith tools it's easy to spend between $2.5k and upwards just for tools.

 

What's the deck height like on the BM frames? I know you used to need to use a shim with the L10 frames on the Matrix rail cutter because the deck was short, but I hear that's not the case anymore? I reached out to BM asking about deck height but never heard back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

BM frames are fantastic in my experience. No decking needed, perfect fit with their grip and a STI grip I had. You just need an elongated sear pin and an ambi safety designed to work with it. Or run a single side safety. STI gen 2 mags 140mm have worked 100% for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have built a couple 2011's off of L-10 frames and they both had dimensional issues. Namely, there was something funky with the placement of the grip bushing holes and I was winding up with a gap at the back of the frame where it meets the grip, next to the grip safety. I never was able to figure out exactly what the issue was, but to be honest It could have been user error.

 

That said, I moved out of Los Angeles and back to Colorado and have building on CCG frames with no issues.

 

One word of advise with 80% builds; be VERY careful when drilling/reaming the sear and hammer pin holes. I found it surprisingly easy to mess them up and wind up with holes that weren't parallel, even when using the Matrix jig.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I ended up ordering most of the parts Rogue Tac sells (my understanding is Rogue Tac was formerly Limited 10) to build two 9mm 2011's along with the Matrix rail jig. The rest of the parts I bought from various places, quite a few from EGW. I'm now acquiring the rest of the measuring tools needed (depth micrometer, outside micrometer, etc.) so I can get started. 

 

Do you guys use a slide measuring tool like Deep River Customs sells? I can measure the width at the rear of the slide with calipers but I can't see any other way of verifying the width the full length of the slide. Or do you trust the quality of the slides you use and just use the measurement at the rear?

 

One other question...right now, lol. I've been considering stainless grips, and if not on either of these two, perhaps on my next one, but it seems all of them have a pinned grip safety. Is it possible to have a steel grip and maintain a functional grip safety?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/28/2020 at 10:59 AM, BlkSC said:

Do you guys use a slide measuring tool like Deep River Customs sells? 

YES, absolutely. You will never get consistent measurements without one. I think Matrix precision sells one too, and it's probably cheaper than Deep river.

 

On 7/28/2020 at 10:59 AM, BlkSC said:

One other question...right now, lol. I've been considering stainless grips, and if not on either of these two, perhaps on my next one, but it seems all of them have a pinned grip safety. Is it possible to have a steel grip and maintain a functional grip safety?

Yes, it is possible, it depends on the grip.

 

I have an older Cheely L2 grip (i got it before it was called the L2) and I use an STI grip safety with it and it works great. The E2 grips are a different story.

 

The PT evo comes with a grip safety plug specific to the grip, so I doubt you would have much luck there...

 

I have a pair of SVI "signature series" grips that have functioning grip safeties. STI sells both functional and "pinned" ones, and you can pick and choose.

I have an extra one lying around, let me know if you are interested.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/30/2020 at 10:52 PM, NateTheSkate said:

YES, absolutely. You will never get consistent measurements without one. I think Matrix precision sells one too, and it's probably cheaper than Deep river.

I keep seeing references to the rail measuring tool that Matrix has but the links never work and I can't find it on their website. I'll shoot them an email, see if one is still available.

 

On 7/30/2020 at 10:52 PM, NateTheSkate said:

 

Yes, it is possible, it depends on the grip.

 

I have an older Cheely L2 grip (i got it before it was called the L2) and I use an STI grip safety with it and it works great. The E2 grips are a different story.

 

The PT evo comes with a grip safety plug specific to the grip, so I doubt you would have much luck there...

 

I have a pair of SVI "signature series" grips that have functioning grip safeties. STI sells both functional and "pinned" ones, and you can pick and choose.

I have an extra one lying around, let me know if you are interested.

I may be interested. My first two 2011's are going to be a matching set but I plan on building a .40 2011 in the future. Is it carbon steel?

 

Also, I recently came across a guy that uses gage pins that fit in each side of the rail, then measures between the gage pins, adds the two gage pins to the measurement and, boom, has the distance. Does this seem like an accurate way of doing this instead of using the rail measuring tool?

 

I have plans to purchase a 0.061-.250" gage pin set, gage block set, and depth micrometer. Are the gage pins and blocks a good purchase for building these?

 

Thanks again, I appreciate everyone that has taken time to respond 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, BlkSC said:

I may be interested. My first two 2011's are going to be a matching set but I plan on building a .40 2011 in the future. Is it carbon steel?

No, It is stainless steel. It is a real nice grip, but doesn't have a super-aggressive texture like some other grips do.

 

I actually have 2 I am looking to get rid of. One is NIB, and the other has had some minor test fitting done, and i mean MINOR. They would make a sweet pair of matching guns. Trigger, mag release, and magwell are included. I think I even have a grip safety sitting around.....

 

17 hours ago, BlkSC said:

Also, I recently came across a guy that uses gage pins that fit in each side of the rail, then measures between the gage pins, adds the two gage pins to the measurement and, boom, has the distance. Does this seem like an accurate way of doing this instead of using the rail measuring tool?

Yeah, this can work, but you will need an inside micrometer and some patience, it is not as fool-proof as the tool. I use mine all the time, just buy one!

 

17 hours ago, BlkSC said:

I have plans to purchase a 0.061-.250" gage pin set, gage block set, and depth micrometer. Are the gage pins and blocks a good purchase for building these?

The gage pins definitely are, I use mine a lot. The blocks might be useful as well, it would depend on the size range.

 

Another nice tool for measuring slide rails is a "seam micrometer." Both Mitutoyo and Starrett make them, check ebay for some good deals on used ones.


The other tool I use a lot is the "groove micrometer." You will need a longer one, but if you get the appropriate size it is invaluable for measuring the slide lugs. The one I have is a Mitutoyo 146-232.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, NateTheSkate said:

No, It is stainless steel. It is a real nice grip, but doesn't have a super-aggressive texture like some other grips do.

 

I actually have 2 I am looking to get rid of. One is NIB, and the other has had some minor test fitting done, and i mean MINOR. They would make a sweet pair of matching guns. Trigger, mag release, and magwell are included. I think I even have a grip safety sitting around.....

PM sent

 

5 hours ago, NateTheSkate said:

 

Yeah, this can work, but you will need an inside micrometer and some patience, it is not as fool-proof as the tool. I use mine all the time, just buy one!

I received a reply from Matrix last night, he said he doesn't produce them anymore but he has a couple of aluminum rail measuring tools left. Unless you see a problem with them being aluminum, I'll buy one from him. I'm assuming that if a person was gentle with it, the aluminum wouldn't be an issue.

 

5 hours ago, NateTheSkate said:

 

The gage pins definitely are, I use mine a lot. The blocks might be useful as well, it would depend on the size range.

The blocks I'm looking at includes as follows:

All in inches, 81 blocks total

0.050

0.100 - 0.101 in 0.0001 increments

0.101 - 0.150 in 0.001 increments

.200 - 1 in 0.050 increments

1 - 4" in 1" increments

 

5 hours ago, NateTheSkate said:

 

Another nice tool for measuring slide rails is a "seam micrometer." Both Mitutoyo and Starrett make them, check ebay for some good deals on used ones.


The other tool I use a lot is the "groove micrometer." You will need a longer one, but if you get the appropriate size it is invaluable for measuring the slide lugs. The one I have is a Mitutoyo 146-232.

My thought was the gage blocks could be used where these two tools would be used on a 2011?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/6/2020 at 8:44 AM, BlkSC said:

I received a reply from Matrix last night, he said he doesn't produce them anymore but he has a couple of aluminum rail measuring tools left. Unless you see a problem with them being aluminum, I'll buy one from him. I'm assuming that if a person was gentle with it, the aluminum wouldn't be an issue.

Aluminum is quite soft, and it will dent and scratch and wear and I would be concerned about it not staying accurate. I would definitely shell out for the Deep River steel version.

 

On 8/6/2020 at 8:44 AM, BlkSC said:

The blocks I'm looking at includes as follows:

All in inches, 81 blocks total

0.050

0.100 - 0.101 in 0.0001 increments

0.101 - 0.150 in 0.001 increments

.200 - 1 in 0.050 increments

1 - 4" in 1" increments

In my opinion, the 0.0001" increment blocks are overkill, you don't need to be that accurate. The 0.050" increment blocks seems a little coarse, but i suppose you could use them in conjunction with the 0.001" increment blocks.

 

Honestly I get along just fine with gage pins only, I think you would be better of with pins in 0.001" increments up to 0.500". I have two sets, one is 0.061"-0.250" and the other is .251" - 0.500". They are "Vermont gage" brand, class ZZ, and are very nice. I would recommend getting the "Minus" tolerance pins, but in the end either will work just fine.

 

On 8/6/2020 at 8:44 AM, BlkSC said:

My thought was the gage blocks could be used where these two tools would be used on a 2011?

Hmmm.... I don't see how that would work. see below.1911_fit_1024x1024.JPG

 

The "seam micrometer" is invaluable for making measurement "D" on the slide, and "C" on the frame. Gage Pins can be used to make "C" on the slide, and "D" on the frame.

 

The "groove micrometer" I use for measuring the distance between locking lug recesses in the slide (the width of the lugs themselves can be measured with gage pins). These measurements are important for assessing tolerance stacking in the slide-to-barrel fit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...