627 9mm Cyliner Conversion

[jmax]

Being cooped up I remembered that I had a spare 627 takeoff cylinder from an old friend's gun andI have a 9mm finishing reamer so off to the shop I went. Checked timing of the takeoff cylinder, reamed the chambers, fit a blued ejector rod assembly for easy identification and off to the range for testing. Coated .356: 120 ge cast had noticeable yaw at 15 yards, 115 gr JHP were OK but .358” 158gr RN moly coated Bear Creek Supply bullets had no yaw at 15 yards, shot close to my ICORE match loads POI. Now is the time to develop loads for my dual caliber 627. 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by jmax

[357454]

I too have a spare cylinder,  what is the pilot diameter is on your Reamer?

[jmax]

I will mic it in the AM and post the diameter

[revoman]

Could have accomplished the same results with 38 short colts. Just saying

[jmax]

357454

Pilot diameter is .348". 

 

revoman

Yes I could have done the same thing with 38SC  but 

a) I had a spare cylinder

b) I had the reamer

c) I load a lot of 9mm and only have to back out the seating die

d) It was a fun project

e) I have buckets of 9mm brass to the point that I reload it once and toss the empties in my brass scrap bucket

f) I am lazy, resetting my dies on my Dillon 550 is a hassle and buying more brass was not attractive to me

[ysrracer]

Shouldn't you load .358 coated bullets because the barrel is .357?

[Mcfoto]

32 minutes ago, ysrracer said:

Shouldn't you load .358 coated bullets because the barrel is .357?

my reaction as well. I’ve even heard of 929 folks loading .358

[ysrracer]

My 627 and 929 both have .357 barrels. 

[jmax]

I added the bullet diameter and it is .358” in diameter to the original post, good catch. Good info on the 929, I had a 987 L Frame and it also preferred .358” diameter Bullets. I still have some 7 shot moon clips left over and depending on how this works out I may start looking for 7 shot 686 cylinder to add variety to the mix. 

[revoman]

2 hours ago, jmax said:

357454

Pilot diameter is .348". 

 

revoman

Yes I could have done the same thing with 38SC  but 

a) I had a spare cylinder

b) I had the reamer

c) I load a lot of 9mm and only have to back out the seating die

d) It was a fun project

e) I have buckets of 9mm brass to the point that I reload it once and toss the empties in my brass scrap bucket

f) I am lazy, resetting my dies on my Dillon 550 is a hassle and buying more brass was not attractive to me

Just giving you a hassle as I did the same thing except I had a 38 super cylinder. Never have used it but it is there if I want. I did have to have the .357 cylinder cut down to the same length as the 38 super and extend the forcing cone.

[jmax]

Now I start load development. It will be some time before I can chrono as the range has social distancing and has cut the number of shooting positions in half. I should get some accuracy testing completed at 25 and 50 yards this week or next. I have Clays, Unique and 231/HP38 on hand and will start with Clays and 231 first. 

[jmax]

I have finished my load development w/o chronograph data due to limited range access. I shot groups at 25 yards and 50 yards using a rest from the bench DA only. There was some wobble due to 72 year old hands and eyes but illustrate what I achieved. Bullets were 158 gr RN lead used in 38LC brass, 158 gr RNFP bullets with no grease groove, and a 124 gr XTP used for 9mm. There was yaw in bullet holes for the the 158 gr bullets used in 9mm at both distances with arrows highlighting elongated holes. The 158 gr RNFP load would be suitable for ranges at 25 and closer ranges but not for ranges beyond 25 yards. There was no observed yaw for the nXTP loads at both distances.  I suspect that 147 gr jacketed 9mm bullets would also perform well. 

 

This has been a great shelter in place project and now I have a 9mm revolver again.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by jmax

[pskys2]

Thought you were using a 9mm case?  Was the LC in the 9mm cylinder or are you working up 9mm bullet loads in LC for the 357 cylinder?

I would think working up a 9mm load would be harder, due to a 357 vs 355 barrel.  Might have to go with a 356 coated.

I tried some ACME 145 Coated 356 bullets, I use them in my Glocks, and had great accuracy at 25 yards (didn't try them at 50 yards as the chrono showed they didn't make ICORE PF about 114 and had only a few) in my 627 Pro with a Dot.  

Don't have a 9mm Revolver but it might be nice to settle on a bullet that would work with both the 357 Revolver & my 9mm Semi-Auto's.

And I had pretty good luck with 355 jacketed bullets in my 357 Revolver, at least out to 25 yards.

[jmax]

I have two cylinder assemblies for my 627. The LC loads were fired in the 357 cylinder and 9mm loads were fired in the converted 9mm cylinder otherwise the LC brass would have been damaged. I first tried coated .356" coated bullets with very poor results and then used my 38 powder funnel to expand the cases for .358" coated bullets. Both 158 gr RN with a typical grease groove and a RNFP with no grease groove were tried. Larger groups were observed when the RN bullet was used with various OAL settings so I settled on the RNFP and again tried different OALs and got better groups. I also tried my XTP load that I developed to simulate my carry load in my G43 and shot them without change and got some very nice results. A lot of steps between when I first posted and now. 

[71Commander]

On 4/20/2020 at 6:26 AM, revoman said:

Could have accomplished the same results with 38 short colts. Just saying

But 9mm brass is cheaper.

[pskys2]

23 minutes ago, 71Commander said:

But 9mm brass is cheaper.

Technically yes BUT,

1) with a Revolver and Moon Clips you don't lose brass, reduces the cost per loaded round drastically vs a semi-auto where you lose a good percentage of brass fired.

2) things work better, and faster, with a specific brand of brass matched to a size of moon clip.  This kind of negates the advantage of the super cheap range brass.

3) so add them up and the costs would be mitigated by the functionality/effectiveness.

 

The wife used to go from one side of town to the other chasing deals on groceries.  Until I pointed out the costs in gas & repairs on a vehicle vs the few cents saved.  Best to go to the store that is either most convenient or has the best/most overall savings.

 

But hey as long as it's crankin' the round go for it!

Edited May 15, 2020 by pskys2

[revoman]

11 hours ago, 71Commander said:

But 9mm brass is cheaper.

Maybe first time around if you pick it up at the range and if it works in your revolver. With Starline 38 Short Colt I bought it once and have fired cases at least 15 to 10 times probably even more and I can say I have probably only split less than a dozen. 
Guess what else they all worked in my revolver without ever sticking. Hmm and they still give me 9mm ballistics and they will shoot 2” and under groups at 50 yards. 

[MikeyScuba]

It would have cost thousands to run SC vs the blazer stash I'm running.  Is there sorting involved, sure, but that's my wife's job and it's only one time. I pre-process my brass so reloading it is a breeze.  Probably up to 25,000pcs of Blazer.  And if I have to leave loaded ammo behind at the IRC (after I got advice to take lots) I wasn't heartbroken.  It was worth less than the hassle of shipping it.

[pskys2]

13 minutes ago, MikeyScuba said:

It would have cost thousands to run SC vs the blazer stash I'm running.  Is there sorting involved, sure, but that's my wife's job and it's only one time. I pre-process my brass so reloading it is a breeze.  Probably up to 25,000pcs of Blazer.  And if I have to leave loaded ammo behind at the IRC (after I got advice to take lots) I wasn't heartbroken.  It was worth less than the hassle of shipping it.

That is a very valid option.  But also note you settled on a single brand & have extra steps.  

The problem is most think of range brass and don't go to the efforts.  And for most who don't load/shoot in the 10,000's a year it doesn't quite pan out.

 

Curious though how many 10,000's of range brass did you sort to get 25,000 pcs of a single brand?

[MikeyScuba]

I think around 50-60k though probably more.  I had a running tab going of when I'll pay off the used Mark7 I got for a 650.  I sell the processed brass I don't need. The 650 is to deprime and size. I run it at my biz so I keep all the lead dust out of my house.  I think my counter is up to 155,000 though it's ran empty occasionally and I've processed brass for someone who asked.

 

I've a second stash of ~15,000 Blazer for this season.  Last years 7000 is up to 8+ loadings.  When there's 2 of you shooting -it's a lot of work.  I've also replaced the 650 with a Revo.  it's still sitting in boxes at the moment.  Better get on it as ranges open up Tuesday and my wife has the rage to master.

[jmax]

I scrounged up some 38 Super brass, dug out my super dies and set them up in a spare 550 tool head. Lyman Cast bullet manual listed loads using Unique that encompasses the range from major to minor power factor loads. I extrapolated to slightly above minor (approx 850 ft/sec) and slightly below major (approx 950 ft/sec) using a 158 gr .358" RN bullet. I have limited powder choices for 9mm development but other powder choices should yield similar results for 9mm.

 

I ran into pressure signs when I loaded the same bullet in a 9mm case as it was a near compressed load but when I reduced the load bullet yaw at 50 yards consistent with unstable bullets. 

 

Today I got very different results with the 38 Super loads. No bullet yaw at 50 yards. I also used a smaller target at 25 yards to give me the same sight picture at 25 and 50 yards. Notes were made on the targets when I peeked when pulling the trigger. Mild recoil with both loads but still cannot setup a chronograph due to social distancing and limited time on the range. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by jmax

[pskys2]

2 hours ago, MikeyScuba said:

I think around 50-60k though probably more.  I had a running tab going of when I'll pay off the used Mark7 I got for a 650.  I sell the processed brass I don't need. The 650 is to deprime and size. I run it at my biz so I keep all the lead dust out of my house.  I think my counter is up to 155,000 though it's ran empty occasionally and I've processed brass for someone who asked.

 

I've a second stash of ~15,000 Blazer for this season.  Last years 7000 is up to 8+ loadings.  When there's 2 of you shooting -it's a lot of work.  I've also replaced the 650 with a Revo.  it's still sitting in boxes at the moment.  Better get on it as ranges open up Tuesday and my wife has the rage to master.

Looks like a plan.  Think I'll stick with SC for my Revo 38's, not much choice anyway LOL!  No plans on going to a 929.  Probably would try the new Ruger 8 shot first!

In 9mm for semi-auto's I'm not sure about it.  Crimped primer brass is still a PITA for me on the 1050.  But I figure shoot it & leave it lay, mostly, at matches.  Same for all my SA's.

 

[gwalia]

Outside of having nothing better to do i don't get it. I shoot a 327 & 627 using SL SC Brass and 9mm projectiles. For the amount is reuse i get from the brass in my opinion it's worth it. I do prefer Barry's Bullets but they are not available currently in Ontario

 

[71Commander]

On 5/15/2020 at 10:04 AM, revoman said:

Maybe first time around if you pick it up at the range and if it works in your revolver. With Starline 38 Short Colt I bought it once and have fired cases at least 15 to 10 times probably even more and I can say I have probably only split less than a dozen. 
Guess what else they all worked in my revolver without ever sticking. Hmm and they still give me 9mm ballistics and they will shoot 2” and under groups at 50 yards. 

I have a couple thousand SC brass. My only issue is someone stepping on them

[revoman]

3 hours ago, 71Commander said:

I have a couple thousand SC brass. My only issue is someone stepping on them

Yeah especially when they are in TK Custom stainless moon clips