Abominator Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 I am having a bit of trouble with what I believe is on the bullet seating step but I am not sure. Bullets are 180 grain RNFP SNS coated. I am loading to an OAL of 1.170-1.180 using range brass that had been run through my Lee bulge buster. LnL is set up as such using Lee carbide 4 die set : 1) deprime/size 2) expander 3) powder 4) seat 5) crimp. On about 50% of the rounds I am getting an OAL over 1.180". Here is the weird thing, when I run those long rounds through the seating die and the FCD again it drops the OAL to 1.17"-1.175". I don't think I need more flare because I am not scraping any of the coating off the bullets when seating. I triple checked and made sure all the dies were secure and lock nuts were tight. Is this just how reloading used 40 S&W brass goes? I have only reloaded with new brass up until now with this caliber. All rounds pass the plunk test and I am not worried about that, just wondering what the heck is going on with the seating. I would hate to have to run all long reloads through the last 2 steps again . I am sure I'm doing something stupid that I am not realizing. The only thing that seems weird to me is the on the 5th stage, the factory crimp die, there is much more resistance vs loading 9mm. I chalked that up to it being used 40 S&W brass but do you think it could be affecting the previous step somehow? Is the bullet shape causing uneven seating in the die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike21STI Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 When you rerun them through, is each station full? I find that if I don't have a case in each station when reloading that I get a variance of around +/- .005. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abominator Posted April 7, 2020 Author Share Posted April 7, 2020 8 hours ago, Mike21STI said: When you rerun them through, is each station full? I find that if I don't have a case in each station when reloading that I get a variance of around +/- .005. Hmmm no I didn't even think of that. I re-run them though individually. I'll try that. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougM Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 Building on Mike21STI's comment, see if you can isolate when the longer rounds are occurring. I found my issues were primarily at the end of a session when the first stages were emptying out. The slight difference in ram offset pressures - especially at the resizing/depriming stage - were enough to cause my seating depth at stage 4 to vary slightly. As a result, I generally run some empty cases through as the press clears out at the end of a run just so the press stays balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HesedTech Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 First I have only used Lee and Dillon progressive presses, but I found they all have a similar issue. When setting up the dies and a load if all the stations aren't filled the OAL will normally be slightly less than during a full run. Because range brass varies in brass quality, size and thickness of the walls there is always a slight difference in OAL between head stamps. Solution is to know this will happen and plan the load accordingly. Basically during the setup know the OAL will be slightly longer when I begin a loading run and vary between head stamps. Yes new brass of the same manufacturers more consistent than range brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postal Bob Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) If you look at the manufacture of the longer rounds, you will see a pattern of certain brands of brass giving longer rounds. I've found that brands such as CBC and S&B, seem to be tighter when seating bullets, probably because of thicker brass. So, because of more resistance during the seating process, the bullets do not seat as deep. But minor OAL when using mixed brass is normal. Btw, you'll notice with those brands of brass, more resistance when seating primers also. Edited April 8, 2020 by Postal Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abominator Posted April 8, 2020 Author Share Posted April 8, 2020 I took all of the dies out and cleaned them with alcohol and some patches. I set up all the dies again and. It seems to be working good. Definitely very small variations because of head stamp and running a full shell plate helps the consistency. I have some test loads to shoot before starting a run. Thanks for the advice on this guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abominator Posted April 9, 2020 Author Share Posted April 9, 2020 Okay so I tried to get a run going today and things just get weirder for me. I think I have figured out what is happening but I don't know why. This issue happens whether or not I have all 5 stages with brass or just one at a time. It is definitely worse when the press if full. - I am seating the bullet to 1.175" +/- .002" -On the Factory crimp die, the OAL will come out to 1.179"-1.187" !!!!! Its like as it de-bells it pushes the bullet out. -If I run them through the last 2 stages again they size back down around 1.175" This is driving me nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkapot Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 How many total rounds through the press? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abominator Posted April 9, 2020 Author Share Posted April 9, 2020 50 minutes ago, konkapot said: How many total rounds through the press? Since I bought it? 3k of 9mm( no problems) , 100rds of .40 S&W. Its only about 1.5yrs old. I just started reloading last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furrly Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Unless you have feeding issues with your Blaster or Blaster's , no big deal, keep loading and shooting. Have fun!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abominator Posted April 9, 2020 Author Share Posted April 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, Furrly said: Unless you have feeding issues with your Blaster or Blaster's , no big deal, keep loading and shooting. Have fun!! I think this might be the case. I'm just being OCD and need to chill lol. I found this, seems like many people have this issue of lengthening the OAL using the FCD. John at LEE Precision explained how the FCD is supposed to crimp the round and how the resizing-ring of the FCD is designed to reduce the outside diameter of the cartridge to .002" below SAMMI's maximum specification so that, in effect, any round loaded using the FCD will fit any chamber. This being the case a change in OAL is considered normal and most likely due to varying thicknesses of the case walls as well as the OD of the cartridge being compressed; John likened it to "squeezing a tube of toothpaste". I guess the fix is to seat the bullet slightly deeper than desired and the OAL will shake out in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furrly Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, Abominator said: I think this might be the case. I'm just being OCD and need to chill lol. I found this, seems like many people have this issue of lengthening the OAL using the FCD. John at LEE Precision explained how the FCD is supposed to crimp the round and how the resizing-ring of the FCD is designed to reduce the outside diameter of the cartridge to .002" below SAMMI's maximum specification so that, in effect, any round loaded using the FCD will fit any chamber. This being the case a change in OAL is considered normal and most likely due to varying thicknesses of the case walls as well as the OD of the cartridge being compressed; John likened it to "squeezing a tube of toothpaste". I guess the fix is to seat the bullet slightly deeper than desired and the OAL will shake out in the end. you are correct, when I change bullets from FMJ to coated I load one round to 1.180, once the rounds are loaded with all stations occupied I end up at 1.185, which is where I want to be .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming the Merciless Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 The problem with the FCD is that it swages both the case and the bullet, the bullet being softer than the case does not spring back like the case does. Now the bullet is a smaller diameter than when it was seated and when the press pulls the loaded round back out of the FCD, the die pulls/squeezes the bullet upwards changing your OAL. That's why I don't use the FCD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HesedTech Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Abominator I’m going to be honest with you about the Lee FCD, with the exception of using it for really thick FMJ bullets and the Lee bulge buster, there are better crimp dies out there. As the last stage in the reloading FCD just adds too many issues to be worth the effort. Lee, and most of the manufacturers, make great taper crimp dies for reloading and using the FCD to “fix” problems just isn’t the best answer. If you have issues after seating the bullet there’s something else which needs to be addressed. My 40sw die set up is: Lee resizing and decapping die. MBF powder funnel and expander. Dillon bullet seating die. Dillon taper crimp die. I have used several other brands and this combo produces the best and most consistent reloads. My goal is zero rejects, truthfully, this combo is basically there. BTW this works with Blue Bullets, Acme and Precision Delta JHP 180 grain equally as well. Enjoy your time at home and I hope you solve your issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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