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Shrouded Barrel Cleaning?


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I’ve got a question for all the PCC shooters with shrouded barrels (Taccom, JP, Wiland, etc.).  Do you worry about cleaning the carbon deposits on the inside of the shroud?  I read the post on cleaning the crown of shrouded barrels after shooting coated bullets (PVC pipe with “teeth” cut in the end), but I didn’t find any posts about cleaning the shroud itself.

I’ve got a GMR-15, and the last time I cleaned it noticed a some carbon build up in the shroud.  The gun has 3000 rounds of reloads (115 MGB JHP w/N320 & Speer Lawman 115 TMJ’s).  Is it worth the time to find a shotgun mop the correct diameter to wipe out the shroud?  Or do I just not worry about and keep shooting?

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I stopped shooting these because of this issue. There are various methods to clean. They all seem to provoke emotional responses from forum members.

 

I used a 7/8 hole saw with an extension and the pilot removed. Worked very well. Went slow to protect the crown.  Never had an issue.  PVC just didn't have the strength to remove heavy build up.  I pulled several ounces out of my shroud once I used the hole saw.   Buildup got so bad it effected my accuracy by putting the barrel in a bind against the shroud. 

 

Best strategy is to shoot fmj and avoid serious build up caused by coated and plated bullets.  

 

Good luck. 

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Picture worth a 1000 words......18" long, serate the end. Works great on TACCOM and JP barrels. Just fits down the ID and cleans them right up.....keep after it with your regular cleaning and you will never have an issue. Cheap too!!.....get it from your local hardware store.

175225980_shroudcleaner.thumb.jpg.367874b9435cbb89128b2aa775ff3a93.jpg

Edited by TRUBL
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Would scrubbing with a large hard and soft brush attachment (like a 10ga) and bore cleaner after every 1-2 sessions help prevent buildup?  I'm waiting on a Taccom extension to be available, and may run into the same issue.  I mostly shoot Blazer Brass which is fully plated, and I've found buildup to not be too bad in comps and barrels.

 

ETA: I'll also end up making one of those PVC tools, too.  What diameter is that, Tim..1/2"?  Thx.

Edited by MoRivera
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I fail to see how shooting plated bullets rated to 1250fps or higher would lead up the shroud.  I also think some poly coated rounds don't either.  I asked Mike at Wiland (if I remember his name correctly) to look down the barrel of his gun.  He shoots Summers 125gr poly coated over 2.8gr 231 powder.  He had at least 3000 rounds down the barrel when I asked him to check.  He dropped a bore scope down and reported some carbon in the shroud, but no lead buildup.

 

I don't really care, because I can't stand the smell.  I'll be shooting heavy plate bullets in my Wiland barrel.  I'd love to be able to shoot factory jacketed.  Trubl says they don't lead, but I have my doubts.  They POSITIVELY lead up a comp on a 2011 Open gun, so I don't see why they would not lead up the shroud.

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I've only got carbon build up, no lead.  I've only shot JHP's and TMJ's thru mine.

My plan is to continue to shoot JHP's only.  I have 2-3K MGB 124 CMJ's that might get shot.

The small difference in price between FMJ's and either JHP's or CMJ's aren't worth the mess FMJ's make in a comp.

I'm guessing they'd do the same in a shrouded barrel.

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11 hours ago, MoRivera said:

It's really because of exposed lead on the base of the bullet, right?  Does a fully-plated bullet avoid that?

We shot many thousand of rounds thru the Taccom 5" shrouded barrel. 99% plated Everglades. Had very acceptable accuracy and never had a lead build up problem in the shroud. 

 

Did have a general carbon build up and used the PVC cleaner Tim recommended on a regular basis to keep that to a minimum. Once we started cleaning it regularly we had no issues or problems.

 

gerritm

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13 hours ago, MoRivera said:

It's really because of exposed lead on the base of the bullet, right?  Does a fully-plated bullet avoid that?

 

Yes.  I've shot thousands of plated bullets through compensated guns with absolutely no lead build up.  The plating has to be thick enough for the velocity you are using.  For example, CCI recommends against shooting their Blazer Brass ammo in comps, because the plating is so thin it flakes off and leads.  The plating on the Blazer Al cased ammo is thick enough to shoot through comps.  I generally use plated rated to 1250fps for minor, and 1500fps for major.  If it doesn't lead a comp, there is no way it will lead a shroud.

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Todd the owner of wiland sent me back this response to my identical question about cleaning the shroud on my Wiland 9mm / .22lr 

I tried a 12gauge mop on my 9mm and after 25x of repeated mop washes, it was still coming out black from carbon.  I only shoot 100% jacked or thick plated, but I do shot very low PF and I think that contributes to the carbon.   

 I have not yet tried a brush.  The Wiland is a smaller diameter than Taccom.

 

Quote

Any 12 gauge accessory will work in the steel or stainless steel shroud. I designed it for this purpose!

I actually never cleaned mine after thousands and thousands of rounds and it's pretty clean still!

 

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2 hours ago, cferree said:

I had a piece of 1/2" PVC.  It's too big for the JP barrel.   Half inch PVC has a nominal OD of 0.840".  The ID of the JP barrel is 0.750" +/- 0.005.

I'm going to try a piece of 3/8" PVC (when I find one).

Try a piece of 1/2" CPVC

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13 hours ago, gerritm said:

We shot many thousand of rounds thru the Taccom 5" shrouded barrel. 99% plated Everglades. Had very acceptable accuracy and never had a lead build up problem in the shroud. 

 

Did have a general carbon build up and used the PVC cleaner Tim recommended on a regular basis to keep that to a minimum. Once we started cleaning it regularly we had no issues or problems.

 

gerritm

12 hours ago, zzt said:

 

Yes.  I've shot thousands of plated bullets through compensated guns with absolutely no lead build up.  The plating has to be thick enough for the velocity you are using.  For example, CCI recommends against shooting their Blazer Brass ammo in comps, because the plating is so thin it flakes off and leads.  The plating on the Blazer Al cased ammo is thick enough to shoot through comps.  I generally use plated rated to 1250fps for minor, and 1500fps for major.  If it doesn't lead a comp, there is no way it will lead a shroud.

Good to hear, will be making ons of those pVc tools as soon as the Barrel extensions are available.  Same size tube/shroud, I assume?

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13 hours ago, zzt said:

 

Yes.  I've shot thousands of plated bullets through compensated guns with absolutely no lead build up.  The plating has to be thick enough for the velocity you are using.  For example, CCI recommends against shooting their Blazer Brass ammo in comps, because the plating is so thin it flakes off and leads.  The plating on the Blazer Al cased ammo is thick enough to shoot through comps.  I generally use plated rated to 1250fps for minor, and 1500fps for major.  If it doesn't lead a comp, there is no way it will lead a shroud.

I went through those warnings a while back and it was my understanding that the warning was for ported barrels because the ports were right there on the rifling of the barrel, so the surface made contact with those edges and would shave off the plating.  But a muzzle device like a flash hider, comp or muzzle brake was fine if the diameter is larger than the barrel's rifling...i.e. the bullet makes no contact with the inside bore of it like with a ported barrel.  Think someone actually contracted CCI about it, but I may be wrong.  I use it in all my PCC's and never notice plating shavings or such in the comps.  If it did while shooting, also didn't notice since the muzzle is out away from face.

 

I think it was also for liability sake for pistols with comps fired closer to the body, with shaving et al.

 

 

OR...could it be that the gas escaping from the rear edge of the bullets itself if blowing off some of the plating?

Edited by MoRivera
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FMJ's and JHP's should have zero issues shooting thru a shrouded barrel.

Lead and polycoated bullets may......as the round just leaves the end of the barrel, the flame trying to get past the back edge of the bullet (under very high pressure) will act as a flame cutter and melt the poly and/or lead just enough to spit that molten mass into the shroud. And yes it will build up over time, but if you keep after it, brush it out, use a hole saw or that fancy PVC tube.....you'll never have an issue with build up in the shroud. 

 

Will FMJ's and JHP's build up in the shroud.....absolutely!!! But no wheres near to the extent that lead will, We shoot FMJ's all the time and in many of the barrels we have over 10K rounds thru them.....for the firt time this weekend, I pushed the PVC pipe down a few of them......pretty much zero resistance, meaning.....not very much build up and nothing to the extent of affecting accuracy.

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12 hours ago, MoRivera said:

I went through those warnings a while back and it was my understanding that the warning was for ported barrels because the ports were right there on the rifling of the barrel

 

No.  My Open gun had two 3/16" poppels (ports) cut into the barrel/rifling.  There was never any shaving of plating.  However, I was using good plated bullets.  If you use thinly plated bullets, you will.  

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2 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

No.  My Open gun had two 3/16" poppels (ports) cut into the barrel/rifling.  There was never any shaving of plating.  However, I was using good plated bullets.  If you use thinly plated bullets, you will.  


This.

 

I run Everglades plated bullets in my PCC and it never leaves more than easily cleaned gunpowder residue in my comp. Even running titegroup and other filthy powders worked fine.

 

FMJ and coated bullets? They packed it with a concrete-like mass I had to grind out. A soak in kroil and other common techniques to clean compensators wouldn’t touch it.

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2 hours ago, zzt said:

 

No.  My Open gun had two 3/16" poppels (ports) cut into the barrel/rifling.  There was never any shaving of plating.  However, I was using good plated bullets.  If you use thinly plated bullets, you will.  

That's still what I mean though, like the thinness of the plating will be shaved by the ports on the rifling, but if it's a larger bore in a muzzle brake or compensator, is there anything to shave it?  That's what I'm trying to figure out here, whether it's a matter of shaving, or flaking off?  And again, if it's just particles and fouling, shouldn't be a big deal with a PCC's barrel being so far from face/body, and you can just clean it out more diligently if needed.  I can't see it affecting accuracy so far as I've been able to get one-ragged-hole groups when sighting in a red dot.  That makes me think it's more about liability or such...someone getting particles in ether eye or the like, which I can't blame them for.

 

I have a friend that I shoot plates with, and with one of his revolvers it shoots particulate out the sides so much that it stings you when it hits you, even bouncing off the walls of the range stall when you are R-O-ing.  We thought it might be unburnt powder coming out of the cylinder gap, but wondering what bullets he's firing (he reloads) and it cold be shaving/flaking or whatever jacket/coating/plating they use.

Edited by MoRivera
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1 hour ago, MoRivera said:

That's still what I mean though, like the thinness of the plating will be shaved by the ports on the rifling, but if it's a larger bore in a muzzle brake or compensator, is there anything to shave it?  

 

No.  The holes in the comp are larger than bullet diameter.  For example, my 9mm pistol has the comp align reamed to .369".  So there is .007" clearance all around the bullet.  Good plating as seen in the now defunct Rainier bullets, and currently in X-Treme, Berry's, Everglades, etc. do not flake off, or scrape off in barrel ports, etc.

 

Now there are some crappy plated bullets out there where the 'plating' is so thin it is really more like a copper wash.  Don't use them.

 

Revolvers always spit hot gas and any unburnt powder out to the side.  It's a natural consequence of the gap between the cylinder and the bore.  Now, if the revolver is not timed correctly, there will also be lead/etc. shavings being thrown out.

 

The bottom line is don't exceed the manufacturer's recommended maximum speed.  If they don't list one, don't buy the bullets.  Follow that recommendation and you won't have any shaving or leading.  It's as simple as that.  

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19 hours ago, zzt said:

 

No.  The holes in the comp are larger than bullet diameter.  For example, my 9mm pistol has the comp align reamed to .369".  So there is .007" clearance all around the bullet.  Good plating as seen in the now defunct Rainier bullets, and currently in X-Treme, Berry's, Everglades, etc. do not flake off, or scrape off in barrel ports, etc.

 

Now there are some crappy plated bullets out there where the 'plating' is so thin it is really more like a copper wash.  Don't use them.

 

Revolvers always spit hot gas and any unburnt powder out to the side.  It's a natural consequence of the gap between the cylinder and the bore.  Now, if the revolver is not timed correctly, there will also be lead/etc. shavings being thrown out.

 

The bottom line is don't exceed the manufacturer's recommended maximum speed.  If they don't list one, don't buy the bullets.  Follow that recommendation and you won't have any shaving or leading.  It's as simple as that.  

Gotcha.  None of my pistols have any porting or comping, so no problem there.  As for my PCC's, by the time it leaves the barrel the gas is all burnt up, and again if there are shavings way out there I don't see them affecting me or anyone unless they're directly above the muzzle.  If I use a barrel extension it's all gong to be within sth shroud anyway.  I think I'll just clean more often to guard against too much buildup.  

 

I know the crappy plating you're referring to.  It looks like copper-colored craft paint.  You can still see the rough texture of the lead.  

Edited by MoRivera
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44 minutes ago, BartCarter said:

Blazer Brass and Speer Lawman both have total metal jacket bullets.  Does anyone know if these are both good to go as far as their copper coverage?

That 's what we're discussing as well.  Blazer Brass is actually plated even though they may call it 'metal jacket'.  Blazer Brass box warns against use with ported barrels and ported compensators.  Personally with Blazer Brass, I don't have ported barrels or comps on my pistols, and with my PCC's comp. I don't notice any jacket shavings when cleaning.  But there is some carbon buildup, which I would guess would accumulate with anything.  I've actually found it to be cleaner shooting than say, Federal American Eagle or WWB, which probably have exposed lead base.

Edited by MoRivera
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57 minutes ago, BartCarter said:

Blazer Brass and Speer Lawman both have total metal jacket bullets.  Does anyone know if these are both good to go as far as their copper coverage?

 

Blazer brass definitely has a very thin copper coat.  If you use it in an Open gun for minor it WILL lead up the comp.  Lawman and Blaser Aluminum are much better, although I would not shoot either in my Open gun.  I do plan to use either or both in my PCC.  If I find either puts lead in the barrel shroud, I'll go back to reloading with quality bullets.

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