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9mm Major Dillon Dies


jschroep

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On 4/3/2020 at 4:50 PM, jschroep said:

Do I need to get the EGW U die if I'm wanting to help prevent setback in 9mm major?

 

Or do the Dillion dies do a good job of preventing setback?

 

If I do get the EGW is it a direct replacement for the Dillon die or does that take up another spot?


 

I have both the Lee U die and the Dillon. I prefer the Dillon and it will prevent bullet setback. Gives a nice “wasp” waist to the brass. 
 

If you already have the Dillon die don’t spend the extra money for the Lee or the EGW die (I believe they are the same). 
 

Additionally I highly recommend using the Dillon taper crimp die because it does a very nice and clean removal of the bell. 
 

Also the Lee FCD really isn’t needed at all, especially if you use coated or plated bullets.  

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  • 3 weeks later...

I know this is old but don't need to start a new thread. What is it that the U die does just out of curiosities sake? Is the mouth of the case closer to the diameter of the bullet? What dimensionally is different from a Dillon die.

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13 minutes ago, jschroep said:

I know this is old but don't need to start a new thread. What is it that the U die does just out of curiosities sake? Is the mouth of the case closer to the diameter of the bullet? What dimensionally is different from a Dillon die.

Dillon dies have huge bevel on bottom supposedly to improve feeding on progressive presses. LEE/EGW U die has very little bevel so it sized much lower. Also I think the Udies are .003 undersize so they size the case More which aids in increasing neck tension which is what actually holds bullets in place

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So the ID and OD of the case would be tighter than in a traditional die correct? If it is able to size further towards the rim then more of the case would be in contact with the bullet after crimping, if I am understanding this correctly.

 

Is he crimp on the entire section of the bullet that's inside the case? Figure I might as well get educated on all this so I know what to look for.

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2 minutes ago, jschroep said:

So the ID and OD of the case would be tighter than in a traditional die correct? CORRECT THAT’S WHERE THE “UNDERSIZED” IN UNDERSIZED DIE(U DIE) COMES FROM. 

If it is able to size further towards the rim then more of the case would be in contact with the bullet after crimping, if I am understanding this correctly. 
THE DIE DOES NOT SIZE FURTHER PER SAY. JUST TIGHTER IN GENERAL. THE LENGTH OF THE SIZING OPERATION WOULD BE THE SAME IT’S JUST THERE IS LESS BEVEL AT THE BOTTOM TO SIZE LOWER

 

Is he crimp on the entire section of the bullet that's inside the case?CRIMP IS STILL JUST ON THE EDGE OF THE RIM. REMEMBER TAPER CRIMP DOES NOTHING TO HOLD BULLETS IN PLACE SO YOU JUST WANT TO REMOVE ANY BELL.Figure I might as well get educated on all this so I know what to look for.

 

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On 4/4/2020 at 8:36 AM, zzt said:

  The only potential disadvantage of the Lee FCD is it is set for .355" diameter bullets.  If you use lead or poly coated bullets sized to .356", the FCD will swage the portion of the bullet inside the case to .355"  That could potentially affect accuracy.  I can't tell the difference in my minor loads.  I use JHPs exclusively in my major loads.


For a nominal fee, Lee will hone the FCD to a larger diameter. 

Edit: I assume they still do.

Edited by lll Otto lll
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1 hour ago, jschroep said:

So the ID and OD of the case would be tighter than in a traditional die correct? If it is able to size further towards the rim then more of the case would be in contact with the bullet after crimping, if I am understanding this correctly.

 

Is he crimp on the entire section of the bullet that's inside the case? Figure I might as well get educated on all this so I know what to look for.

 

It sizes closer to the rim to help remove any bulge that's common in brass that was fired in a pistol with a deep cut barrel ramp (more of the case is unsupported).  Glocks and several other brands are notorious for this.  The U stands for undersize, because the die is smaller and sizes the i.d. of the case smaller than most dies.  The tighter fit between the case and bullet is what holds the bullet in place.  The crimp is only on the front edge of the case mouth.  It's a zero to .001 taper to facilitate feeding of the round in the barrel.  It's not intended to, and won't, hold the bullet in place if the case isn't sized properly.  Basically, the i.d. of your sized cases should be at least .002 smaller than the o.d. of your bullets.

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Anyone have issues with the 1050 backup die or Mr Bullet Feeder die opening the case up too deep for 9 major? 

 

I had to unwind both as the bullets were not seated as deep as the case expansion. 

 

Because of this I kept having bullets topple before seating and my crimp is very fussy. In my eyes there is not enough crimp but if I straighten the case completely I have no neck tension. They still function ok. 

 

I think I'm going to make them shorter next time I load. Currently loading LOS Manufacturing 123gn HP's to 1.165. EGW sizing die, the rest are dillon. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

 

It sizes closer to the rim to help remove any bulge that's common in brass that was fired in a pistol with a deep cut barrel ramp (more of the case is unsupported).  Glocks and several other brands are notorious for this.  The U stands for undersize, because the die is smaller and sizes the i.d. of the case smaller than most dies.  The tighter fit between the case and bullet is what holds the bullet in place.  The crimp is only on the front edge of the case mouth.  It's a zero to .001 taper to facilitate feeding of the round in the barrel.  It's not intended to, and won't, hold the bullet in place if the case isn't sized properly.  Basically, the i.d. of your sized cases should be at least .002 smaller than the o.d. of your bullets.

Is this .002 what i should be measuring to determine if my resizing die is properly set then?

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Just now, jschroep said:

Is this .002 what i should be measuring to determine if my resizing die is properly set then?

 

It's what you measure to determine if the die is sizing the case down enough to hold the bullet in place to prevent setback (that's when the bullet gets pushed back into the case from impacting the feed ramp).  Adjusting the die closer to the shell plate isn't going to change that, but it will help ensure you're sizing the length of the case as far down as possible, which helps eliminate the bulge that's common in previously fired brass.

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43 minutes ago, ltdmstr said:

 

It's what you measure to determine if the die is sizing the case down enough to hold the bullet in place to prevent setback (that's when the bullet gets pushed back into the case from impacting the feed ramp).  Adjusting the die closer to the shell plate isn't going to change that, but it will help ensure you're sizing the length of the case as far down as possible, which helps eliminate the bulge that's common in previously fired brass.

Uh, I strongly disagree with part of that. 9mm is tapered so if the sizer die isn’t kissing the shell plate it won’t size the mouth properly. When a sizing die comes loose and backs out even a fraction bullets will push into the case quite easily by hand. Just happened to a buddy this weekend. We were practicing and I picked up one of his Ejected 9MAJOR rounds and thought it was awfully short. I pushed it against a bench and it sunk even further. He got home and found his sizer was as loose.

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1 hour ago, Sarge said:

Uh, I strongly disagree with part of that. 9mm is tapered so if the sizer die isn’t kissing the shell plate it won’t size the mouth properly. When a sizing die comes loose and backs out even a fraction bullets will push into the case quite easily by hand. Just happened to a buddy this weekend. We were practicing and I picked up one of his Ejected 9MAJOR rounds and thought it was awfully short. I pushed it against a bench and it sunk even further. He got home and found his sizer was as loose.

 

I'm not that familiar with Lee dies, but I'd be surprised if they're a continuous taper the full length.  Usually they taper to a certain point, then are straight wall from there.  But I could be wrong.  I should have also made clear that it's standard procedure to mount the sizing die as far down as it will go.

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Both my old RCBS and Lee U dies instructions call for touching the shell plate. My first U die carbide ring cracked doing that but they replaced it. The RCBS does not produce the wasp shape but never failed to produce sufficient tension.

 

I have two Dillon 9mm dies circa 1992 when I got my 1050.  The instructions for those show backing up a 1/2 turn from the shell plate. Interestingly those two dies have different designs of carbide rings. Even backed off they both produce the wasp shape. I've also used them touching the shell plate with no issue.

 

The only problem I ever had with 9mm brass is a bunch that was fired in a generous chamber machine gun. None of my dies could get the base back into spec.  My rollsizer could bring most of it back to spec but some cases were just too far gone. Ended up retiring that brass rather than mess with it.

 

 

Edited by PhotoRecon
Mis spelled word
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6 hours ago, jschroep said:

So the margin for error on the U die is a bit smaller then if I read that right? I guess amke sure that thing is tight Everytime you reload.

you are getting confused. First a Dillon sizing die will size the portion of the case that holds the bullet smaller than a Lee/EGW. Because

of the opening at the base of the die is beveled to guide the case into the die it can not go as low (top to bottom)on the case.The Lee

is or has little to no lead at the mouth so it can size the base of the case closer to the rim.Lee is not the only one that sizes closer to the 

rim than Dillon.But has a great marketing team and tear sizer ring is .003 I be leave smaller than sammy speck. Dillons sizer ring is actualy

smaller yet just does not go as close to the rim.  I dont use a Lee/EGW die I use a Dillon and have no issues with brass fired in a unsupported

2011 chamber.

 

 

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On 4/4/2020 at 5:48 PM, OptimiStick said:

I use almost only .coated 356 and FCD does not swage any of my bullets. I don't crimp much - but I have no accuracy issues.

 

On 4/15/2020 at 3:24 PM, SeattleDude said:

OP - Everyone have their own best recipe to make best possible ammo.

 

When reloading 9 Major one particular issue I want to avoid 100% is bullet setback. I use mixed head stamp brass.

 

The only die that I personalty found (i didnt try every die out there) that really makes sure that your case is slightly undersized and sizes closest to the rim is Lee U-Die / EGW Die.

 

I do not use Lee FCD die. I think this die is a band aid to bad reloading practices and will wreck havoc with accuracy on coated bullets and it could possibly resize them post seating. 

I do not Crimp the bullet in 9mm. You DONT want to crimp it. I use Redding Taper Crmp die (Dillon die works great too) to just remove the bell after bullet is seated. 

Not sure how long you guys have been reloading. I find these two posts interesting. Along with many many folks who use the FCD die without issue saying the opposite.
Just my opinion here from personal observation, but I think it has to do with different lots over the years, maybe new machinery or wear on the dies or the brass thickness of that shooters brass supply.
10-20 years ago I shot a button of precision moly coated and others plated 40 and 9mm all loaded with Lee FCD,  no swaging problems, have pulled bullets to verify bullets not cut into or smaller than they started out.
After a long hiatus, started back up loading recently, loading 45 cowboy and ACP with 452 bullets (verified) with the new to me Hitec type coatings,,  checked and sure enough bullets were being swaged down to .451 and .4515 by the Lee FCD.
While that die has been around awhile has very little use. 
So basically when someone says the FCD die undersizes the bullet, I believe them. And when someone says it doesnt I believe them.

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FWIW, I use a Lee FCD for every pistol caliber I reload.  On 45 and 40 brass, it does resize all the way down.  It also swages the portion of a lead bullet (or poly coated) that is inside the case to .451" and .400" respectively.   I have not noticed all loss of accuracy in either my Limited or bullseye loads.  I haven't checked in 9mm yet, because I only shoot .355" JHPs in my Open guns.  I am about to try some coated bullets in my PCC and regular barreled 9mm, so I'll see what the story is.

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I use a lee undersized die and a FCD , I’m getting much better ammo as a result of the Lee dies. I only use the Dillon seating die , but that’s going to change to a Redding competition seating die Very soon.

Edited by CZGeoege
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