Giraud Power Trimmer vs on-press trimmer?

[avastcosmicarena]

Trying to decide on a trimmer right now. Currently, the options are Giraud Power Trimmer, Dillon RT1500, and the Bosch trimmer kit Mark 7 sells. However, Mark 7 is releasing a new smaller trimmer in a few months. Right now, this will just be for .223, but I'll likely need to trim 6mm/6.5mm cases down the line, and possibly need to convert .223 cases to 300 blackout.

The Giraud Power Trimmer is super expensive, but I'm considering just getting it right now to have something available and not using any on-press trimmer until Mark 7 releases their new smaller trimmer in a few months.

Anyone have any thoughts? Other than the $$$, does the idea above sound reasonable? Does anyone regret buying a Giraud Power Trimmer? Is the RT1500 maybe better than I think and I should consider it more carefully?

[iflyskyhigh]

Which press?

I used to used a Worlds Finest Trimmer 2. Its precision rifle accurate, but man, my hands and fingers would scream after a couple a couple hours. Not to mention it takes double the time to size then go back and trim. I only use it now for small batches of precision rifle stuff.

Now I have the RT1500. Just got through processing about 8200 pieces of mixed 223/5.56 without a hiccup. Also done many thousand 223 to 300 BO conversions. It’s so much faster for large quantities. SO MUCH!

You size and trim at one time. With a case feeder you fly. It doesn’t chamfer and debur like the Giruad, but it makes such a clean cut, and I stainless tumble and then polish which knocks off any burs that might have been left. I also use a Lyman M die to open up the neck for the Mr Bullet feeder, so anything left inside after all that gets pushed away before the bullet goes in.

They Giruad is probably a solid choice if you’re making smaller quantities of match rifle ammo, but for large quantities that will be loaded in the progress the RT1500 is tough to beat.

One last piece of advice. If running the RT1500, run some type of sizing die in station 1 instead of just a decapper. It wakes the process go much more smoothly, and gives you a cleaner cut, and more uniform result across the board. I run an RCBS Black Small Base Die. This die really helps to make sure that any piece you process will chamber in any rifle. Only necessary on brass new to you. Really helps with those military pieces that may have been fired in automatic weapons. Those ones always seem to be the toughest ones to squeeze back down to spec.

[avastcosmicarena]

21 minutes ago, iflyskyhigh said:

Which press?

I used to used a Worlds Finest Trimmer 2. Its precision rifle accurate, but man, my hands and fingers would scream after a couple a couple hours. Not to mention it takes double the time to size then go back and trim. I only use it now for small batches of precision rifle stuff.

Now I have the RT1500. Just got through processing about 8200 pieces of mixed 223/5.56 without a hiccup. Also done many thousand 223 to 300 BO conversions. It’s so much faster for large quantities. SO MUCH!

You size and trim at one time. With a case feeder you fly. It doesn’t chamfer and debur like the Giruad, but it makes such a clean cut, and I stainless tumble and then polish which knocks off any burs that might have been left. I also use a Lyman M die to open up the neck for the Mr Bullet feeder, so anything left inside after all that gets pushed away before the bullet goes in.

They Giruad is probably a solid choice if you’re making smaller quantities of match rifle ammo, but for large quantities that will be loaded in the progress the RT1500 is tough to beat.

One last piece of advice. If running the RT1500, run some type of sizing die in station 1 instead of just a decapper. It wakes the process go much more smoothly, and gives you a cleaner cut, and more uniform result across the board. I run an RCBS Black Small Base Die. This die really helps to make sure that any piece you process will chamber in any rifle. Only necessary on brass new to you. Really helps with those military pieces that may have been fired in automatic weapons. Those ones always seem to be the toughest ones to squeeze back down to spec.

The press is a Mark 7 Evolution. How large is the RT1500? would it fit on the press without being overly bulky/heavy?

I think I've read that the Bosch one Mark 7 sells right now is much more powerful, but it's also heavy & bulky, which is why they're working on a replacement for it.

[Maximis228]

I process 223, 330 blackout and covert 223-300 blackout.

 

The 1500 works great for the processing 223 and 300 blackout. I did use this for converting 223-300 for a while but kept having issues with brass swarf clogging the hose due to larger chips. This was both in the manifold and the shop vac tube itself (I used a clear smooth tube, this works much better than anything corrugated). The RT 1500 spins at about 4,800/RPMs per Dillon's techs.

 

I switched to the Bosch set up from Mark 7. The Bosch router runs from 8,000-25,000 RPMs depending in the setting you choose. I was having issues with the mark 7 collar conversion kit as there is a slot in the unit. This is to help with air flow but it also causes small chips to fly out all over the place. The unit also comes with a drilling bit. While this bit made awesome cuts... its design would pull brass up into the motor area and cause excessive heat quickly, even with the built in fan.

 

I have since switched to the Fast and Friendly Honey Badger kit with a boring bar for the Bosch router. The boring bar pushed the swarf out, not up like the drill but did. This has been the best set up i've used so far. Ran 10K of 223-300 blackout without a single issue.

 

Both units offer a 1 year warranty. The Bosch will be cheaper to replace.

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Maximis228

[AHI]

The 1500 takes up 3 stations  the one before and after the one its in.

is smaller than the router that mark 7 currently uses. I would recommend

the 1500 if you plan on converting 223 to 300 Black out over the Giruad.

Your fingers will cramp up very quickly. trying to do this.

 

[Intheshaw1]

If you're looking for something to hold you over till mark 7s new trimmer comes out you could look at the WCT (world's cheapest trimmer) on eBay. It's nothing super nice but for 23 bucks it's a cheap way to get by for a little while.

 

I've heard good things about them but haven't used one yet.

[m700]

Im in the middle of 10,000 rds of 223 size/deprime/trim. Dont forget the ear plugs. I have the vacuum in the next room and between the air and my 1200(older version of the 1500) the noise is alot. A pair of noise canceling headphones and its fine.

[avastcosmicarena]

Has anyone here seen or used the Henderson Precision Powered Trimmer? It's even more expensive than the Giraud, but seems to have some advantages. 

https://www.hendersonprecision.com/product-page/gen-2-powered-case-trimmer
 

 

[Maximis228]

13 minutes ago, avastcosmicarena said:

Has anyone here seen or used the Henderson Precision Powered Trimmer? It's even more expensive than the Giraud, but seems to have some advantages.

 

Im sure this is great for things like PRS rounds and what not , but doing bulk cases would be a nightmare.

[milanuk]

Where are you guys seeing that about the smaller trimmer in development from Mk 7?  Sounds intriguing!

 

I've got a HB w/ the Bosch 1617 motor... and in my unqualified opinion, a 2.25 HP motor is gross overkill for regular trimming.  I realize they (HB) is probably looking at it from the point of commercial ops and/or forming 300BO... but for 'regular' work, I think a Bosch Colt or similar 1-1.25 hp 'trim' router would do just fine.  Sadly, they aren't a *whole* lot cheaper (the motors), but they are a lot *smaller* on top of the tool head.

[avastcosmicarena]

On 4/29/2020 at 11:05 PM, milanuk said:

Where are you guys seeing that about the smaller trimmer in development from Mk 7?  Sounds intriguing!

 

I've got a HB w/ the Bosch 1617 motor... and in my unqualified opinion, a 2.25 HP motor is gross overkill for regular trimming.  I realize they (HB) is probably looking at it from the point of commercial ops and/or forming 300BO... but for 'regular' work, I think a Bosch Colt or similar 1-1.25 hp 'trim' router would do just fine.  Sadly, they aren't a *whole* lot cheaper (the motors), but they are a lot *smaller* on top of the tool head.

A Mark 7/Lyman employee told me about it in their online chat a while back.

[milanuk]

Tell em to get after it! [emoji12]

I'd be all over one of those like a fat kid on a donut! [emoji106]

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[OnVacation]

On 3/31/2020 at 11:55 AM, Maximis228 said:

I switched to the Bosch set up from Mark 7. The Bosch router runs from 8,000-25,000 RPMs depending in the setting you choose. I was having issues with the mark 7 collar conversion kit as there is a slot in the unit. This is to help with air flow but it also causes small chips to fly out all over the place. The unit also comes with a drilling bit. While this bit made awesome cuts... its design would pull brass up into the motor area and cause excessive heat quickly, even with the built in fan.

I too run the bosch with the F&FB setup.  I bought a used boring bar off ebay to toss on next time I run brass.  the 3 flute is much better than the 4 flute bits at pushing chips out.  I had no problem running several thousand per sitting.  I deprime, then trim, and do a final sizing after tumbling, great consistency from the setup, but way overbuilt and pricey.  

[avastcosmicarena]

9 minutes ago, milanuk said:

Tell em to get after it!

I'd be all over one of those like a fat kid on a donut!

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I'm waiting for it too...

[milanuk]

 

 

 

the 3 flute is much better than the 4 flute bits at pushing chips out.  

 

Do tell...

 

Just did a batch (few hundred) with the 4-flute bit and I noticed that I'm getting a bit of swarf down inside the case... almost like the fan on the 1617 EVS is blowing so much its overpowering the 1.25" vac port.

 

Then again, I don't have much of an ejection path for the chips to begin with...

 

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[iflyskyhigh]

 
 
 

 
Do tell...
 
Just did a batch (few hundred) with the 4-flute bit and I noticed that I'm getting a bit of swarf down inside the case... almost like the fan on the 1617 EVS is blowing so much its overpowering the 1.25" vac port.
 
Then again, I don't have much of an ejection path for the chips to begin with...
 
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Put da nut on the bottom. Clears up that ejection area.


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[milanuk]

Put da nut on the bottom. Clears up that ejection area.

 

 

Tried that.

 

The nut hit on the index star, and irreparably damaged it. [emoji25]

 

[OnVacation]

1 hour ago, milanuk said:

 

Tried that.

 

The nut hit on the index star, and irreparably damaged it.

are you not running a manifold?  Not that I like running the shop vac for an hour with my muffs on, but it certainly clears the chips and keeps swarf out of the cases.  (as my buddy says, it looks like ammo pubes...).  machinists I've talked to explained that 3 flutes clear chips faster than 4, but 4 might give a smoother finish on harder materials like steel.  I followed the advice and ran a 3 (and will soon switch to a bar).  but maybe it was just the manifold (I have the same clearance as you do on my LnL AP)

[milanuk]

This is about all the room I have...

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[milanuk]

Put da nut on the bottom. Clears up that ejection area.

Have you managed to use the lock ring on the bottom (on a 550) without damaging the indexer? What am I missing?

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[SeattleDude]

I use both.

 

RT1500 during processing. Trim to 1.751

 

Then super quickly touch up on Giraud Power Trimmer for chamfer and deburr. (I also use it for trimming 6.5 creed)

[iflyskyhigh]

Have you managed to use the lock ring on the bottom (on a 550) without damaging the indexer? What am I missing?

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I had mine on a 550 for awhile and I thought I did. But maybe I’m mis remembering. I have it in the 650 now and it’s on the bottom.


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[b2948kevin]

The giraud is awesome, but if you can work an on-press trimmer into your work flow, it's probably a better option.

[onlyupfromhere]

On 5/6/2020 at 3:00 PM, SeattleDude said:

I use both.

 

RT1500 during processing. Trim to 1.751

 

Then super quickly touch up on Giraud Power Trimmer for chamfer and deburr. (I also use it for trimming 6.5 creed)

 

 

I've just recently started using my RT1500 and when I'm processing mixed brass, I don't get a consistent trim-to length. As long as I'm under 1.76, is it good to go? Is there a 'too short' that I need to worry about? Adjusting the die is a real pain in the ass.

[SeattleDude]

Nothing to worry about, you are good to go. You will also find out that some of the FC (Federal) brass is very short from factory.