Tanfo Sear-Spring in CZ...

[ck1]

Just wondering if anyone has any long-term experience with using a 4-coil Tanfoglio Sear Spring in a DA/SA CZ -75-based gun like a Shadow or similar..? Because, so far I'm really digging it, just wondering if there are any issues to look out for down the road?

 

So, my Shadow 2 w/ added CGW Race Hammer, CGW 11.5lb Hammer Spring, T-5 Disco, and CGW reduced power trigger-return-spring was pulling between 6-6.5lbs DA, and in SA at 1.75lbs-ish on average (SA maybe pulling a tad lower, maybe closer to 1.5lbs most of the time with my "real finger" rather than the trigger-weight gauge honestly). SA feel was still about as crisp as I've felt on a CZ (even the best pro-done ones), but I decided that it had broken-in so light hat I wasn't totally happy with it anymore (I'd got it to 2lbs when new, but it got lighter after the gun had seen a few thousand rounds), not that it felt rubbery or had gotten mushy, but breaking at around 1.5lbs it didn't have the same "snap" I was after if anyone knows what I mean...

I searched the forums looking for ways to maybe increase the SA pull a bit (I know, making triggers heavier isn't a topic that comes up too often lol), but hopefully without making the DA pull any heavier (like using a stronger Hammer Spring would). Seems there's not a lot out there or on here about it, just a couple threads about guys with ridiculously light SA-only TS triggers that needed a bump to be made a tad heavier, and a thread or two from guys new to CZ's, and light triggers in general, who were looking to make their triggers heavier... but the option of using a Tanfoglio Sear Spring in place of the CZ Sear Spring did come up. Though, still very little info out there about using a Tanfo sear spring, especially in a DA/SA CZ. So, decided I'd try it out...

 

The Tanfoglio Sear spring is 4-coils vs a CZ's 3-coils, beyond that they're virtually identical, and from what info I'd found that works out to about 4oz heavier in SA pull-weight, and from my experience that seems to be correct as far as the pull-gauge is concerned: after install my SA trigger-weight is now a very consistent 2lbs.

Feel-wise, IMHO for my gun/trigger at least, it's a huge improvement in the SA's break and overall feel, the added weight is barely noticed, but the added "crispy-ness" and "snap" is very noticeable. Also, the trigger-reset benefited as well: the reset feel improved a bunch and now is as good or better than the way the trigger felt with the heavier stock trigger-return-spring in the gun vs the RPTRS; like many guys, I changed to the RPTRS because they tend be more robust and last longer while also taking about .5lb off the DA pull-weight, but, at the expense of a softer trigger-reset feel. The Tanfo Sear Spring seems to have made things right again in trigger-reset land (for me at least).

 

Now the really weird part: for some unknown reason the Tanfoglio Sear Spring, besides the effect it had on the single-action, has now noticeably improved my DA pull!?

I think I know these guns pretty well, but I still am not really sure what is going on, but for whatever reason the Tanfo Sear Spring has had the unexpected side-effect of making my DA-pull feel WAY better... and it's confirmed* on my trigger-pull gauge as it now shows that it dropped a little bit in pull-weight (around 2-4oz depending on how consistent of a pull I get when measuring), and (what the pull-gauge can't measure) somehow the whole action/stroke got wayyyy smoother!? Not sure how this happened, but it's awesome.

 

Anyways, digging the Tanfo spring, hoping its good to go...

 

*(after measuring DA-pulls a bunch more times, I'm now not sure it really got any lighter, instead I think because it's now so much smoother, it's much easier to get a good consistent reading with the pull-gauge)

Edited March 30, 2020 by ck1
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[Fasthenk65]

Wow. Exactly what I am looking for. Changed TRS and sear spring for softer ones, trigger is amazing at 925 grams (under 2lbs) but do not like the mushy reset.

 

Will order a Tanfoglio sear spring and install!!! Hope I experience the same!

[Tok36]

   I have played around with the Tangfo Sear Springs a bit and i agree that there is some noticeable effect on the feel of the SA trigger beak. I need to do more testing on more CZs to develop a solid opinion on the subject.

 

   Bases on my understanding of the CZ75 variant action the Sear Spring regardless of its weight should not play into the reset. The reset is affected by the Trigger Return Spring, Trigger Bar Spring and possibly the reset contact surfaces in DA or SA. While it is possible that i am missing something i suspect that there is another factor at play that is being missed. This goes for the Double Action pull as well. Aside from increasing the pull weight towards the end of the DA pull by a little bit the sear spring its self should not make the DA more or less smooth. It is possible that the specific installation of the spring could figure into things.

 

For clarity, i am not suggesting that you did not perceive what you perceived but that the cause is not what you are guessing it is. 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by Tok36
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[ck1]

Yeah, I'm not really sure exactly what's going on with how the sear spring is having an effect on the reset and double-action... but it's definitely having an effect. Granted, this is a 1 of 1 sample, so it just might be how it is interacting with the clockwork of my specific pistol. (I've taken the gun down and swapped the sear springs a few times back and forth now to make sure I'm not crazy lol, the Tanfo sear spring is definitely an improvement for me.)

 

That said, I have formed a couple hypothesis' on what I think is happening as far as the trigger-reset seeming better and the DA pull seeming smoother: I think the stronger sear spring is yielding more of a "pop" when the sear slides off the top of the hammer hooks and then catches the hooks; so, while I agree that the sear spring shouldn't really have anything to do with the trigger-reset and it's more actuated by the TRS and trigger-bar spring, the added "pop" makes it feel more tactile and thus the trigger-reset "feels stronger" even if it isn't really so.

As far as the DA feeling smoother: the best guess I can come up with is that I think the stronger sear spring is maybe somehow taking some "slack" out of the interaction of the sear-cage and top of the disconnector that may have been present before with the softer CZ sear spring, and now it's keeping things "more engaged" against each other. Since I'd previously already polished up the usual places like the back of the trigger bar and bottom of the sear-cage, and have further honed it in with a bunch of DA-pulls (both live fire, and lots of DA dry-fires), I don't think the extra engagement of the parts is really adding any weight to the pull, it's just providing the "feel" or sensation of it being smoother.

 

Again, IDK, as far as the DA-pull is concerned, I'd honestly expected the stronger sear spring to make the DA-pull/stroke heavier if anything... but in my case, again 1 of 1 sample here, that hasn't been the result...

 

Maybe there's some guys out there who are as bored as I am during this self-quarantine with access to a Tanfoglio sear spring who can try it out and chime in with their results..? Specifically, I am using a stock Tanfoglio sear spring (part# 9.3 on a Tanfo schematic), NOT a reduced power one.

Edited March 31, 2020 by ck1

[Fasthenk65]

Spring is underway (from Italy so might take time unfortunately) once in I try!!

[Fasthenk65]

Hope it works otherwise my original springs go back in, reset is to sloppy

[ck1]

20 hours ago, Fasthenk65 said:

Hope it works otherwise my original springs go back in, reset is to sloppy

 

Yeah, it's definitely worth a try... I've swapped the springs more than a few times now to make sure I'm not crazy and actually am experiencing what I'm experiencing, and my trigger-reset for sure feels better with the Tanfo sear spring, its no contest.

 

I'm loving what it did to both my SA and DA pull: the SA feels so much more like the often described "glass rod break" most of us are after, and the added weight in mere ounces isn't even really perceivable when talking 1.75lbs vs 2lbs. If anyone has ever felt what trying a stronger hammer-spring (like a 16lb vs 13 or 11.5) does for their SA's break, making it seem more crisp, the Tanfo spring feels kind of like that... except the DA doesn't get any heavier like it would using a stronger hammer spring. Still don't know why, or if I'm just lucky, but my DA got better and smoother as well as a happy side-effect.

[Fasthenk65]

Monday spring arrives from Grauffel. I'll report back!

[MoRivera]

I've heard of folks doing this, especially in a Tactical Sport because they feel the stock trigger is too light and has no wall to the break.  Let us know how it works, and be safe.

[bveto]

20 minutes ago, MoRivera said:

I've heard of folks doing this, especially in a Tactical Sport because they feel the stock trigger is too light and has no wall to the break.  Let us know how it works, and be safe.

 

That's what I did to my Tac Sport.  It increased the pull weight about 1/4 pound.  I found a web store https://www.cz-parts.com that sells CZ sear springs in different thicknesses, .7mm, .75mm and .8mm, they are all supposed to increase the trigger pull weight. The factory thickness is .6mm, and the Tanfo sear spring is .635mm. 

I'm considering ordering one of each to see what pull weight each offers, just haven't been able to talk myself into spending $10 per spring plus shipping from Czech Republic.

[ck1]

38 minutes ago, MoRivera said:

I've heard of folks doing this, especially in a Tactical Sport because they feel the stock trigger is too light and has no wall to the break.  Let us know how it works, and be safe.

 

Beyond a bunch of dry fire, I've only had a chance to shoot about 300rds with the Tanfo spring, and so far it seems to work just fine and feels great. No bad behavior at all, pistol functions as normal.

Adding a bit to the "wall" is a great way to describe what it feels like it does.

[MoRivera]

Yeah some factory CZ Tac Sport triggers in particular are kinda' scary-light.

[MoRivera]

5 hours ago, bveto said:

 

That's what I did to my Tac Sport.  It increased the pull weight about 1/4 pound.  I found a web store https://www.cz-parts.com that sells CZ sear springs in different thicknesses, .7mm, .75mm and .8mm, they are all supposed to increase the trigger pull weight. The factory thickness is .6mm, and the Tanfo sear spring is .635mm. 

I'm considering ordering one of each to see what pull weight each offers, just haven't been able to talk myself into spending $10 per spring plus shipping from Czech Republic.

That's some good info right there.

[StanJ]

I tried this in a couple of guns after reading this thread.  In a tso the tanfoglio  sear spring added a tiny bit to the pull weight but did give the trigger pull a more definitive wall and a slightly more crisp break.  An overall improvement for my trigger preferences. 
 

Second gun, 75B with a cz comp hammer and 13 lb recoil spring, this combination is already significantly better than the factory parts that come in this gun but the sa doesn’t have a very defined wall and the break is good but isn’t all that crisp maybe a 7/10 on my subjective crispiness scale.  After the four coil tanfo spring install the break is more crisp for sure, I’d give it an 8.8/10, with a more defined wall and I’m seeing 4-5 oz heavier.  I’m not noticing a difference in reset or DA pull on my gun.  But in both of these guns this is for sure a worthwhile upgrade for what I like in a trigger.  
 

Out of curiosity I installed one of the cz sear springs into The Tanfo and it has a noticeably lighter trigger pull in sa maybe even more dramatic than 1/4 lb but no definite wall and a less crisp.  I prefer it slightly heavier with crisper break.  So it got its spring back and I’ll be ordering two more for the czs.  
 

A quick note on reset, years ago when I installed the parts in the 75, I didn’t like the feel of the reset either with the reduced power trs.  CZC sold a heavy trs that is supposed to withstand breakage better and gives a snappier reset at the expense of reduced pull weight.  I settled on the heavier trs spring and run a 13 lb hammer, now with the tanfo four coiler for the sear I’m at about 3.25 lbs SA.  While this might be too heavy for some the gun feels more predictable and responsive.  I may now drop to the 11 lb spring for the hammer and see if that might be the ideal combination.  
 

Thanks for the ideas.  

[ck1]

^^^ cool that it worked out a bit for ya.

It's a small change, but having the Tanfo spring add a bit to the wall really does seem to make the SA feel crisper if that's all one is looking for... pretty sure the happy side-effects I got as far is it making my DA and reset feel a tad better too is just a product of gun-to-gun tolerance differences and luck.

Like you mentioned, I think everyone has their own "subjective crispiness scale" as far as what they prefer, and I guess sometimes it's not all about sheer trigger-weight, getting the feel right is an important component to a nice trigger.

[MoRivera]

I've gotten use to the 'softer' break in my Shadows.  At least with a competition happen it doesn't have the kind of calming that happens with stock CZ hammers and their high hooks, so even though it's soft, it's still short (that sounded weird), and with a T1 disconnector there isn't much takeup either.  In my longslide Shadow it's even a bit crisper because I replaced the hammer-keeper pin with a longer/contoured one that takes up some dead space and keeps the sear cage from moving that little bit when the trigger is worked.  Essentially same function that those tiny springs in the rear of a Tac Sport's sear cage do.