10.2.1 Wall Structure touching fault line - 2020 Rules

[Jollymon32]

HELP!

It seems to me that if a COF has forward fault lines and there is a wall whose bottom structure (not supports, think a 6' square wall 6' risers and 6' top and bottom wood pieces) touch the forward fault line that the wall is NOT part of the COF and cannot be used for support.  I quote 10.2.1 "...and any object completely outside the fault lines may not be used for support, even if it touches an object that is inside the fault lines."

 

NROI posted an article on this last week, HOWEVER, in their example (the forward wall with a port), there are no forward fault lines under this wall and as such, under the concept that the wall travels all the way up and down, then it is obvious that the wall is the forward fault line.  So no doubt that it is part of the COF.

 

However, throw in a fault line that touches the leg of the wall on the outside of the fault line...then what?

 

The prior thought was that if it made contact with the fault lines, it was part of the COF and could be used for support.  But It seems to me that this has changed.

[broadside72]

A wall is assumed to be a solid plane to the ground so if it is in contact with or within the fault lines then it defines the shooting area (2.2.1.2) and can be used for support. The only thing that changed in the new rules is the portion of the wall that extends beyond a shooting area can now be used for support. 

 

 

[MemphisMechanic]

1 hour ago, broadside72 said:

A wall is assumed to be a solid plane to the ground so if it is in contact with or within the fault lines then it defines the shooting area (2.2.1.2) and can be used for support. The only thing that changed in the new rules is the portion of the wall that extends beyond a shooting area can now be used for support. 

The MAIN thing that changed is that the legs of the wall beyond the shooting area can not be used for support: you can’t stand on them any longer.

[broadside72]

2 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

The MAIN thing that changed is that the legs of the wall beyond the shooting area can not be used for support: you can’t stand on them any longer.

 

Show me the rule that says that.  The 2019 rules changed to no longer allow gain support from the "supporting items" of a wall. Any portion of the wall outside the shooting area in the 2019 rules was deemed unavailable for support. That last part is what changed in 2020.

 

It is the feet and braces that can not be used for support. That means the devices that the walls fit into cannot be used and any brace or stabilizing part extending away from the wall structure itself cannot be used. This has not changed from 2019

 

But the edge of the wall (aka the leg) can now be used for support if it is outside the shooting area if a portion of the wall is used to define or is within the shooting area. Would you treat a solid piece of plywood that was sitting on the ground on its edge acting as a wall any different than a typical 2x2 framed snow fence wall that does not physically go to the ground other than the legs?

[shred]

10.2.1 calls out the legs as not allowed for support--

 

"Support structures outside the shooting area such as, but not limited to wall feet, legs, braces, etc., may never be used for support"

 

A vertical leg post might be effectively the same as the edge of a solid-to-the-ground wall, but the rules treat it differently.

 

[ziebart]

I think the idea was to remove any doubt that hooking your foot under the wall/leg isn't allowed. Too many people forget they were always supposed to treat them as going all the way to the ground

[Jollymon32]

18 hours ago, broadside72 said:

A wall is assumed to be a solid plane to the ground so if it is in contact with or within the fault lines then it defines the shooting area (2.2.1.2) and can be used for support. The only thing that changed in the new rules is the portion of the wall that extends beyond a shooting area can now be used for support. 

 

 

2.2.1.2 specifically states “Objects completely 
outside the shooting area, regardless of whether they contact the 
shooting box, fault lines, walls, or any other barrier, are not part of 
the shooting area, except as specified in 10.2.1”

 

The wall in the OP, is completely outside of the shooting area and it contacts the outside of the fault line.  Can the wall be used for support?

 

[broadside72]

If it is completely outside the shooting area then it can't be used for support. If there are forward fault lines that are not directly under the wall then it can't be used

[broadside72]

This is semantics I think. I am calling the leg the entire piece that goes from the ground to the top of the wall structure since it is typically a single piece. But the leg in the rules is only the part below the physical portion of the wall that defines the edges of the invisible wall that goes to the ground per the rules.

[shred]

13 minutes ago, broadside72 said:

This is semantics I think. I am calling the leg the entire piece that goes from the ground to the top of the wall structure since it is typically a single piece. But the leg in the rules is only the part below the physical portion of the wall that defines the edges of the invisible wall that goes to the ground per the rules.

 

Yeah, although over the years I've seen a large variety of walls and not all of them have straight vertical leg poles at the ends (think A-frames or legs inboard from the edge and such, although those are getting less common), so they probably just said 'Legs' as a cover-all and to prevent using them in ways that would not be possible were they a solid-to-the-ground wall. A side-effect of the rule is some legs then can't also be used in the same way as the edge of a solid wall possibly could.